"Until you find it."

Translation:Tills du hittar den.

December 26, 2014

38 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/potatoeglot

Why was 'tills' used here instead of 'förrän'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gramphos

"Tills" focus more on the time that actually passes by while waiting for the condition. "Förrän" is more concerned a bout a condition that blocks an action or a state change. It is most often seen together with inte.

I'll use two examples to illustrate the difference:

  • "Vi kan inte gå förrän vi hittar den." - "We can not leave until we find it."

  • "Du får klara dig tills vi hittar den." - "You have to manage until we find it."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HarryEmsall

I think a good way of remembering this might be:

Förrän = not before (för, beFORe) We can NOT leave BE(FOR)E we find it.

Tills = until (unTIL something happens) You have to manage unTILL we find it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Autrelle

It's a little tricky. Thanks, I'll try to remember.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Radon04

So, is "förrän" a bit like 'before (an action is done)' and "tills" like 'until (an action is completed)'?

I'm not implying that "förrän" doesn't mean "until", just trying to highlight the difference between the two :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Miriam731058

But a few tests before it was "jag simmar inte förrän tisdag" - isn't that also a time?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tasseled

Again, it seems to depend on the condition of it being Tuesday before I can go swimming.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheSlavLad

"Tills hittar du det" doesn't work... why? Doesn't the adverb count as 1.?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

After tills, normal word order applies.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheSlavLad

Thanks, but is it the same for all adverbs that are at the start of the sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

This sentence fragment is a subclause, because tills is a subordinating conjunction. With those, you'll always get this word order. In a main clause (unless it's a question) you always get the verb in second place. Read more about word order here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/8970470


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikyNik1856

Can i think about subordinating conjunctions as the last piece of the main sentence? This would mean that in the sentence "du hittar den" the verb is actually on the 2nd place, which gives me peace of mind even if know that the v2 rule doesn't apply to subordinate clauses and questions.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Timislove

I've seen both "den" and "det" accepted here. Is there any reason? I'm still not certain on the differences


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

Since the English sentence could be translated to either den or det, both translations are accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DenisLavergne

Ok. So it wasn't a singular/plural thing. It's just that we don't know if the "it" reffered is an "ett" or "en" word. Correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xolove24xo

Can someone explain why its not tills den hittar du? Doesnt the verb always come before the "who"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lundgren8

The normal word order is subject-verb-object (du hittar den). ”Tills” is a conjunction that introduces a new clause, such as ”du hittar den”. Then you can switch the subject and the object for emphasis sometimes, but not in this case since ”tills” already is in the beginning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jwbards

Does your 2nd sentence explain why V2 doesn't make the sentence "Tills hittar du den"? I thought the verb should be in the 2nd place ...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

Yes, this is just a sentence fragment. A whole sentence could be for instance Jag letar tills jag hittar den, ('I'll look until I find it') where tills jag hittar den is a subclause, so V2 does not apply, instead the subject needs to go before the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lundgren8

You could say that tills here is a conjunction and introduces a new main clause, so V2 is reset and you start over with jag hittar den.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

I don't think so: if you insert inte, it would have to go before the verb. So I think tills is a subordinating conjunction and starts a subclause.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DenOrangeMannen

Both hittar and finner are acceptable in this case. What's the difference between the two?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

hittar is the normal word and finner is formal. finner is used for some abstract senses, but for concrete things, I don't believe I ever use finner in the spoken language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KamranWali

Just to be clear a bit we used "den" here because the context implies that we know what "it" is, right? Otherwise "den" would be "det" meaning we don't know what "it" is, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nino852303

What about the f*cking rule that verbs always comes second?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pselkirk

If you read through the rest of the comments, you'll find your question has already been answered.

To quote Arnauti above:

This sentence fragment is a subclause, because tills is a subordinating conjunction. With those, you'll always get this word order. In a main clause (unless it's a question) you always get the verb in second place. Read more about word order here: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/8970470


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/colecg20

Why is it det with ni and den with du?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

It isn't, all combinations of those are accepted answers. If you get it as a multiple choice question, you might get one, two, or even three correct options to choose from.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J_dixon145

Is there a reason why "Tills er hittar den" isnt accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pselkirk

"er" is the object form of plural "you", where this calls for the subject form: "ni" or "du".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryPetter7

Jag har skrivit 4 gg. "TILLS DU HITTAR DEN" och fick fel ...Varför det?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryPetter7

Kan ni inte lägga på den rätta svar, istället att jag svara hela tid fel?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mario_N64

Hi, What is the difference between 'det' and 'den', and when to use each one? Many thanks. Mario


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Radon04

Hi! 'Det' and 'den' both mean 'it'. 'Det' is used when referring to nouns that have the article 'ett', and 'den' is used when referring to nouns that have the article 'en'.

For example, 'den' can refer to en katt, en hund, en dryck, en bil etc. Example sentence: "Jag har en ny bil. Den är snabb." ("I have a new car. It is fast.")

'Det' can refer to ett hus, ett bord, ett marsvin etc. Example: "Jag kan inte hitta mitt bord. Var är det?" ("I can't find my table. Where is it?")

'Det' is also used at the beginning of sentences, as a subject when there are no other subjects and when it's unknown whether a noun is an en- or ett-word. It's generally used when there's 'it' in the English sentence but it doesn't necessarily refer to any noun.

Examples: "Hur är det?" (An idiomatic sentence, meaning "how's it going"), "Vad är det där?" ("What is that?" - den/det där = that, here the noun is unknown), "Det regnar." ("It is raining", no other subject), "Det är en bil." ("It is a car." - the beginning of a sentence)

So, you can use 'den' when referring to en-nouns and 'det' in every other case, I guess.

Hopefully I explained it clearly :) I'm not a native speaker, so someone correct me if I'm wrong and feel free to add something.

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