"Den helige anden"

Translation:The Holy Ghost

December 27, 2014

64 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti

anden is one of the words where pitch accent might trip you up. I recommend watching this video by blehg to understand it better.
If you listen to the pronunciation here, the speaker says first anden = the spirit, like in the holy ghost, and then anden = the duck. If you can't hear the difference, that's normal. It can take a while to catch it.

December 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

I thought the duck was ankan.

December 15, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/NattKullav1

En anka är en tämjd and.

December 15, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

Aha, jag visste inte att det fanns en skillnad!

December 15, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/OrchidBlack

For some reason, my phone never wants me to click imbedded links. Could you give the full link if it's not too much trouble? Please and thank you! :)

January 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti

Yes, they don't work on mobile for some reason. Here's a link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXp7_Sjgm34

And here's the Forvo link: http://sv.forvo.com/search-sv/anden/

January 8, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/OrchidBlack

Tack så mycket!

January 9, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/legresam

Wow! thanks, very useful. Clears up a lot on pronounciation.

February 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Embla_

wow, that video is amazing! Why is this not linked in the beginning of the course? I didn't get that this was why words sounded different, if only I had paid attention to this from the beginning...

May 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Gerardd88

Is the audio correct here? Doesn't it say "the holy duck"? Shouldn't it be pronounced with that second pitch accent?

August 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

Yes you are right, it should be 'an 'den.

August 5, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/NattKullav1

"The holy duck" :D

December 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/MarkBorkBorkBork

My answer of "the holy drake" was not accepted :(

September 13, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti

We do accept the holy duck though.

September 14, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/JimNolt

What is the difference then between "anden" and "ankan?"

September 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/MarkBorkBorkBork

en anka is a domesticated duck while en and is a wild duck, if I understand it correctly.

September 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/JimNolt

Tack.

September 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/friswing

'anden' is here pronounced way too fast. It should be a stress on both An and on the ending 'En* = An-dEn

December 27, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Zzzzz...

Why is it helige, not heliga? I thought one uses -e only with nouns referring to men.

January 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti

Both helige and heliga work fine for the holy spirit, helige is a bit more old-fashioned. Both are accepted.

January 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/desifromitaly

Not exactly. I wrote "Den heliga anden" and I got "Almost correct! Den helige anden".

April 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti

Since you're writing in this forum, you must have had it as a 'listen and type' exercise. And since the voice actually says helige, not heliga, your answer is really only "almost correct". When translating from English into Swedish though, both are accepted answers.

April 20, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/desifromitaly

Thanks for your explanation, now I see. Anyway, I wrote "heliga" because I didn't catch the "e" (it sounds like "heliga" to my ears) :-)

April 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/OwainLlyfr

Since May 2018 only "den heliga Anden" is accepted in the Swedish church, as the holy ghost has to be a female being (to make up for the Son being male). Not asking you to rewrite the course though (especially since both answers are accepted and other religious Swedish movements still use "den helige Anden") - I'm only adding the info.

July 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel

That is absolutely not correct.

The -e ending is optional in Swedish for males, so -a is neutral - not feminine. Hence, it makes perfect sense to use either heliga or helige for the Holy Spirit.

Traditionally, since the 1917 Bible translation, the Holy Spirit always used the male ending. Other Christian phrases do similar things - like how the possessive of Jesus is often still Jesu, or how helgat vare ditt namn uses a subjunctive.

But that "the holy ghost has to be a female being" is complete nonsense. Here's a rebuttal from a catholic priest explaining how the language works: http://www.dagen.se/debatt/professor-i-teologi-missforstand-att-heliga-ande-ar-en-hon-1.1063084

July 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

I've never thought of it but how do possessives ending in s work in Swedish. In English we add just an apostrophe, but Swedish doesn't use apostrophes.

July 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel

Funny, you're the third person to ask today. :)

The recommendation is to use different phrasing to avoid the problem, but the possessive is otherwise simply the same:

  • That is Thomas = Det är Tomas
  • That is Thomas's book = Det är Tomas bok

However, you can also add an apostrophe after s, x, and z if it avoids ambiguity - Det är Tomas' bok. This is somewhat dated, and discouraged nowadays, but grammatical.

July 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

Haha, sorry. But thanks for the explanation.

July 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/OwainLlyfr

https://www.svenskakyrkan.se/kyrkohandboken Click on the pdf file for "Huvudvolym" and go to page 31 (or simply search for "anden"). Sorry, but I know this. This is my job. And I really love how you call it not correct, because I hate this "reform" as well... As I stated quite nicely in the earlier post - this is for the Swedish church only (not the catholic church nor the free movements). Take it or leave it, bot please stop saying that things are "absolutely not correct" just because you don't know everything about it. Even though you know alot there might be a tiny thing that you're not an expert on.

July 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel

I know the Swedish church recently started using heliga, I don't dispute that part at all.

However, you also write this:

as the holy ghost has to be a female being (to make up for the Son being male)

... which is, indeed, absolutely not correct.

The thing is, that -e being masculine is correct - but the -a ending is not feminine, it is neutral. This goes for all of Swedish. Hence, it makes sense to use for the Holy Spirit, as the gender of the Holy Spirit has been a debated subject for two millenia - literally.

Exclusively using the masculine ending for the Holy Spirit is a relatively new phenomenon, it used to be quite common with both heliga and anda. Reverting to the neutral option does not make the Holy Spirit feminine - just gender neutral, so that people can choose for themselves what and how to worship.

Members of Svenska bibelsällskapet have been using den heliga anden for longer than this, and Bibel 2000 persisted the change, since it's a better translation of the original Greek and Aramaic texts. It was really only a matter of time before Kyrkohandboken was updated as well.

Here is what Svenska kyrkan themselves write about it:

När det gäller formuleringen "I Faderns och Sonens och den heliga Andens namn" så har det gjorts en språklig anpassning till Bibel 2000 som ingick i direktiven för handboken. Förändringen har gjorts från "I den helige Andes namn" till "I den heliga Andens namn" (den grammatiska formen för Anden är reale eller realgenus i den nya kyrkohandboken.).

July 12, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/friswing

Lol, I give you a lingot for that reflection! But the Church has been a male/patriarchical institution for 2000 years, so I suppose the Church 'feels' the 'spririt' IS male. "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" :D

January 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Zzzzz...

@friswing Tack för.. um... lingoten? It is funny, how language sometimes reflects sexist thought constructions, even in progressive cultures. I think the Swedes are doing rather well, though, when comes to fighting off linguistic sexism: The fact that en sjuksköterska can also refer to a man makes me feel more optimistic about my place in this world as a woman. Apropå, what do you think about hen? From a Finnish point of view the discussion in Sweden seems a bit, well, strange. We Finns have managed to get by just fine with a single word for the third person singular, and all the huffing and puffing in Sweden seems odd to us. Moreover, the discussion about hen is much more composed among our Swedish-speaking population than it is in Sweden.

January 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/friswing

First one more comment on 'Den helige anden'. I am ordinarily oldfashioned, when it comes to use the -e-ending, I still use it when referring to men. Even though it is not needed anymore. But when talking about the 'spirit' - I would rather say 'Den heligA ande", it feels more natural to me, more neutral I suppose. --- What concernes 'hen', in speach I would say it only about Concita Würst or the few persons I know that have comparably ambiguous sex. For me 'hen' has a much wider use in written language, so I won't have to write "he or she" all the time, when I don't want to restrict something to just one sex.

January 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Zzzzz...

Tack för svaret. Your last sentence, especially, is really interesting.

January 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Gaby754722

I recently read a new about the word "hen" because it was accepted by the Swedish Academic Language (or something like that).

April 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/friswing

Yes, The Swedish Academy (the same organization that appoints the winner of the Nobelprize of Literature), also edits a Swedish Language Glossary Book (SAOL), which this year appears in it's 14th edition. Every new edition takes out absolet words, and adds 'New Words' that has become generally accepted.

April 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Arnauti

Since you mentioned hen, I'm adding a link to a thread with a discussion about it: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/5531330

January 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Zzzzz...

Tack.

January 7, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/adesva

-e and -a are different for genus, but -e is becoming increasingly uncommon.

March 9, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Snommelp

So, the hint for anden is "genie, spirit." I know that I should be thinking "Holy Spirit," but I can't help but think of Genie from Aladdin, now...

March 25, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/ghostofthefuture

I typed "The Holy Genie" and it was marked correct. In addition to laughing at this all day, I will be using this at any future church services I go to.

June 1, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/friswing

Yes, Aladdins genie in a bottle, is in Swedish called "anden i flaskan"

March 25, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Zmrzlina

Actually, he was anden i lampan, referring to the oil lamp of Aladdin.

May 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/friswing

Yes, You are right about Aladdin, it was a lamp. I confused him with other stories about spirits in bottles found on beaches.

May 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/gabzerbinatoEng

I think the TTS often does not use the right pitch accent in the end of sentences, right?

December 30, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Alison761846

Why not the holy spirit"

January 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

That's a fine translation. Report it.

January 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel

It's been accepted for four years, though. :)

January 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

shrug

January 28, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/boDjwyEj

Sorry, have to protest at the acceptance of "holy ghost" and "holy spirit". Whether you are religious or not, not capitalizing the names of these entities is very offensive to believers, and definitely not standard English going back millennia.

May 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel

I really don't think most believers would find an honest mistake very offensive, but I agree with your point. I'll make a note to capitalise the names wherever they occur. Don't want to just change it here and forget to change it everywhere else as well. :)

May 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/boDjwyEj

Thank you, devalanteriel. A gentleman and a scholar, as always, but being of Swedish/German descent, it seems unlikely you were exposed to the religious culture I grew up in in the U.S. I hope and believe I have always treated you with the utmost respect and appreciation, not to mention admiration, but am quite sure few believers in the U.S., at least, would consider that an "honest mistake". Some American journalists have taken to referring to God as "dog", for example, which I find deplorable, yet the very same ones never refer to Allah as "allah". Let's all make a commitment to respecting one another's beliefs or unbeliefs. Keeping the discourse civil is not all that hard.

May 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel

I'm actually quite familiar with American Pentecostalism, and if a conversation went like this, I don't see any Americans I've met complaining:

- Hey, you're spelling this wrong - the Holy Spirit should always be capitalised.
- Oh, I didn't realise. I apologise, will fix that.

But I also trust that you're right if you say that not all American believers would react like that, and agree about respect. :)

May 11, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/Amanda917622

I'm sure it is supposed to be the holy spirit. Ghost is would be "spöke". Swedish is my native language btw.

August 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

Ja men i kristendom, holy spirit och holy ghost betyder samma sak.

August 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amanda917622

Har aldrig hört det utrycket innan och jag är ändå från en kristen familj. Vi har alltid sakt den heliga anden i det sammanhang att det är the holy spirit, för det är ju ändå inget spöke.

August 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

Holy ghost är ett engelskt uttryck menade jag att säga. Jag vet att man säger den helige anden på svenska. :)

August 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Amanda917622

Fast jag har ju alltid hört Holy spirit när det varit gudtjänst osv.

August 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel

Jarrett is correct. For instance, Wikipedia:

The English terms "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" are complete synonyms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_in_Christianity

August 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

Uttryket kanske finns inte inom Sverige?

August 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel

Uttryket kanske finns inte inom Sverige?

No, det heliga spöket just sounds ridiculous. :)

August 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/jarrettph

devalanteriel Neej, jag menade det engelska uttryket Holy Ghost kanske finns inte inom Sverige. Hehe.

August 11, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/devalanteriel

devalanteriel Neej, jag menade det engelska uttryket Holy Ghost kanske finns inte inom Sverige. Hehe.

Oh, right. :) Well, I think almost all Swedes will have heard it in Don McLean's American Pie at least.

August 11, 2018
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