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"Den helige anden"

Translation:The Holy Ghost

December 27, 2014

67 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

anden is one of the words where pitch accent might trip you up. I recommend watching this video by blehg to understand it better.
If you listen to the pronunciation here, the speaker says first anden = the spirit, like in the holy ghost, and then anden = the duck. If you can't hear the difference, that's normal. It can take a while to catch it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

I thought the duck was ankan.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NattKullav1

En anka är en tämjd and.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Aha, jag visste inte att det fanns en skillnad!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OrchidBlack

For some reason, my phone never wants me to click imbedded links. Could you give the full link if it's not too much trouble? Please and thank you! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

Yes, they don't work on mobile for some reason. Here's a link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXp7_Sjgm34

And here's the Forvo link: http://sv.forvo.com/search-sv/anden/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OrchidBlack

Tack så mycket!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Embla_

wow, that video is amazing! Why is this not linked in the beginning of the course? I didn't get that this was why words sounded different, if only I had paid attention to this from the beginning...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/legresam

Wow! thanks, very useful. Clears up a lot on pronounciation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gerardd88

Is the audio correct here? Doesn't it say "the holy duck"? Shouldn't it be pronounced with that second pitch accent?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Yes you are right, it should be 'an 'den.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NattKullav1

"The holy duck" :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkBorkBorkBork

My answer of "the holy drake" was not accepted :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

We do accept the holy duck though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JimNolt

What is the difference then between "anden" and "ankan?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarkBorkBorkBork

en anka is a domesticated duck while en and is a wild duck, if I understand it correctly.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

Why is it helige, not heliga? I thought one uses -e only with nouns referring to men.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

Both helige and heliga work fine for the holy spirit, helige is a bit more old-fashioned. Both are accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/desifromitaly

Not exactly. I wrote "Den heliga anden" and I got "Almost correct! Den helige anden".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

Since you're writing in this forum, you must have had it as a 'listen and type' exercise. And since the voice actually says helige, not heliga, your answer is really only "almost correct". When translating from English into Swedish though, both are accepted answers.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/desifromitaly

Thanks for your explanation, now I see. Anyway, I wrote "heliga" because I didn't catch the "e" (it sounds like "heliga" to my ears) :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OwainLlyfr

Since May 2018 only "den heliga Anden" is accepted in the Swedish church, as the holy ghost has to be a female being (to make up for the Son being male). Not asking you to rewrite the course though (especially since both answers are accepted and other religious Swedish movements still use "den helige Anden") - I'm only adding the info.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

That is absolutely not correct.

The -e ending is optional in Swedish for males, so -a is neutral - not feminine. Hence, it makes perfect sense to use either heliga or helige for the Holy Spirit.

Traditionally, since the 1917 Bible translation, the Holy Spirit always used the male ending. Other Christian phrases do similar things - like how the possessive of Jesus is often still Jesu, or how helgat vare ditt namn uses a subjunctive.

But that "the holy ghost has to be a female being" is complete nonsense. Here's a rebuttal from a catholic priest explaining how the language works: http://www.dagen.se/debatt/professor-i-teologi-missforstand-att-heliga-ande-ar-en-hon-1.1063084


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

I've never thought of it but how do possessives ending in s work in Swedish. In English we add just an apostrophe, but Swedish doesn't use apostrophes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Funny, you're the third person to ask today. :)

The recommendation is to use different phrasing to avoid the problem, but the possessive is otherwise simply the same:

  • That is Thomas = Det är Tomas
  • That is Thomas's book = Det är Tomas bok

However, you can also add an apostrophe after s, x, and z if it avoids ambiguity - Det är Tomas' bok. This is somewhat dated, and discouraged nowadays, but grammatical.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Haha, sorry. But thanks for the explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/friswing

Lol, I give you a lingot for that reflection! But the Church has been a male/patriarchical institution for 2000 years, so I suppose the Church 'feels' the 'spririt' IS male. "The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

@friswing Tack för.. um... lingoten? It is funny, how language sometimes reflects sexist thought constructions, even in progressive cultures. I think the Swedes are doing rather well, though, when comes to fighting off linguistic sexism: The fact that en sjuksköterska can also refer to a man makes me feel more optimistic about my place in this world as a woman. Apropå, what do you think about hen? From a Finnish point of view the discussion in Sweden seems a bit, well, strange. We Finns have managed to get by just fine with a single word for the third person singular, and all the huffing and puffing in Sweden seems odd to us. Moreover, the discussion about hen is much more composed among our Swedish-speaking population than it is in Sweden.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/friswing

First one more comment on 'Den helige anden'. I am ordinarily oldfashioned, when it comes to use the -e-ending, I still use it when referring to men. Even though it is not needed anymore. But when talking about the 'spirit' - I would rather say 'Den heligA ande", it feels more natural to me, more neutral I suppose. --- What concernes 'hen', in speach I would say it only about Concita Würst or the few persons I know that have comparably ambiguous sex. For me 'hen' has a much wider use in written language, so I won't have to write "he or she" all the time, when I don't want to restrict something to just one sex.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zzzzz...

Tack för svaret. Your last sentence, especially, is really interesting.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gaby754722

I recently read a new about the word "hen" because it was accepted by the Swedish Academic Language (or something like that).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/friswing

Yes, The Swedish Academy (the same organization that appoints the winner of the Nobelprize of Literature), also edits a Swedish Language Glossary Book (SAOL), which this year appears in it's 14th edition. Every new edition takes out absolet words, and adds 'New Words' that has become generally accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

Since you mentioned hen, I'm adding a link to a thread with a discussion about it: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/5531330


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adesva

-e and -a are different for genus, but -e is becoming increasingly uncommon.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/friswing

'anden' is here pronounced way too fast. It should be a stress on both An and on the ending 'En* = An-dEn


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Snommelp

So, the hint for anden is "genie, spirit." I know that I should be thinking "Holy Spirit," but I can't help but think of Genie from Aladdin, now...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ghostofthefuture

I typed "The Holy Genie" and it was marked correct. In addition to laughing at this all day, I will be using this at any future church services I go to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/friswing

Yes, Aladdins genie in a bottle, is in Swedish called "anden i flaskan"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

Actually, he was anden i lampan, referring to the oil lamp of Aladdin.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/friswing

Yes, You are right about Aladdin, it was a lamp. I confused him with other stories about spirits in bottles found on beaches.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gabzerbinatoEng

I think the TTS often does not use the right pitch accent in the end of sentences, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alison761846

Why not the holy spirit"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

That's a fine translation. Report it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It's been accepted for four years, though. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amanda917622

I'm sure it is supposed to be the holy spirit. Ghost is would be "spöke". Swedish is my native language btw.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Ja men i kristendom, holy spirit och holy ghost betyder samma sak.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amanda917622

Har aldrig hört det utrycket innan och jag är ändå från en kristen familj. Vi har alltid sakt den heliga anden i det sammanhang att det är the holy spirit, för det är ju ändå inget spöke.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Holy ghost är ett engelskt uttryck menade jag att säga. Jag vet att man säger den helige anden på svenska. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amanda917622

Fast jag har ju alltid hört Holy spirit när det varit gudtjänst osv.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Jarrett is correct. For instance, Wikipedia:

The English terms "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" are complete synonyms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_in_Christianity


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Uttryket kanske finns inte inom Sverige?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Uttryket kanske finns inte inom Sverige?

No, det heliga spöket just sounds ridiculous. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

devalanteriel Neej, jag menade det engelska uttryket Holy Ghost kanske finns inte inom Sverige. Hehe.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

devalanteriel Neej, jag menade det engelska uttryket Holy Ghost kanske finns inte inom Sverige. Hehe.

Oh, right. :) Well, I think almost all Swedes will have heard it in Don McLean's American Pie at least.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Azouras

@devalanteriel

Or Rowan Atkinson's speech from Four Weddings and a Funeral:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh-eMuIVGgU

One can note that he uses both 'holy spirit' and 'holy goa'—er, I mean—'ghost'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarloGamag1

Why ghost? all Christian religions call it Holy Spirit


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Both ways are actually fairly common, mostly since the KJV Bible used "Ghost" a lot. I agree that "Spirit" would be a better default, though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/h0moboy666

When refering to "den heliga anden" I've never seen it translated to a ghost since DEN HELIGA anden, is always a religous term. As in the one and only holy spirit. But "anden" is also a kind of duck but more generally "a spirit". Andarna - the spirits.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

"The Holy Ghost" is a common name for "The Holy Spirit", though. It's a perfectly normal translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarloGamag1

The Holy Spirit was accepted the first time and ghost was suggested as an alternative. Why the Change? Christians would use Spirit and Protestants would use Ghost.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Duo's system usually suggests the default translation as an alternative when you enter a correct non-default translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarloGamag1

Tack så mycket! Jag uppskattar din förklaring men den felaktiga men korrekta bör accepteras. Jag ska göra en anteckning för framtida fall använda default. Jag är några lektioner kvar för att avsluta träningsfasen. Hur kan jag fortsätta att träna? Det finns en blå ikon som heter PLUS som jag har använt men stämmer plus med en lektion eller är det oberoende?
Tack så mycket igen!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

We do accept both Ghost and Spirit.

I'm honestly not sure about what the best way of continuing is - I'm afraid you're asking the wrong person. The Plus option is a subscription to support Duolingo, not really something that improves the course.

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