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  5. "When will he have graduated?"

"When will he have graduated?"

Translation:När kommer han att ha tagit studenten?

December 29, 2014

34 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/friswing

A very awkward Swedish sentence in my opinion. When will anyone ask this? I would rather ask "När ska han ta studenten?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

We'd use this one when speculating about the future. We're discussing this young man's future and when we see his graduating as something that will be completed at a certain point in the future, this is how to say it. Of course we rarely need to use this construction, so your sentence is much more useful, but it doesn't mean the same thing. In English, it would be When will he graduate?, again a very useful sentence, but not the same one we're teaching here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/podgorsk

So I assume that this is sort of a Swedish idiom: ta studenten. Can one give some intuition why take the student would mean to graduate?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

To be able to call oneself "student" in Sweden, one formerly needed to pass final exams of late secondary school (Swedish gymnasium). If you passed, you got studentexamen, and hence the expression "ta studenten".

Nowadays, there is no longer a final exam for gymnasiet, but the expression lives on to mean having gone through gymnasiet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/podgorsk

Does it mean that the expression applies only to graduation from the high school? What about graduation from the university?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

Yes, from late secondary, comparable to high school. You normally finish it during the year you turn 19.

For graduating from college and university, you'll get a kandidatexamen (Bachelor's degree) for a 3-year education, Masterexamen (Master's degree) for a 5-year education and a PhD is en doktorsexamen.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jwbards

But what's the verb? Something other than ta studenten?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amy262264

So does that mean you ask "tagit kandidat" if asking about future graduation from university/colledge.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

tagit examen - we specify if needed, e.g. tagit kandidatexamen.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mette547406

In Finland you still do the matricualtion examination when finishing gymnasium so in Finland the expession is still used in its original form!

(Swedish is the second official language in Finland for those who don't know)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rakhelii

So you are an "elev" until you pass the studentexamen?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

No. Students of tertiary education (gymnasium) and above are studenter. Before that, in primary and secondary education, you are an elev.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BettyJJ

So it is more like "become a student" instead of "take the student", isn't it? Maybe it's short for "take the student exams" originally?

I also have difficulty understanding "ta examen" meaning graduate. I mean you could take the exams and fail... Only if you pass the exams you graduate. Or does "ta examen" actually mean pass the exams in Swedish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

The meaning of examen has shifted in Swedish from its original "test of knowledge" to the modern "succesful test of knowledge". So it shouldn't be thought of as an exam today, but as of a degree. Hence, it's something you can take.

The expression ta studenten comes from the longer ta studentexamen, using this modern meaning. To do this today, you need to fulfill a set of criteria but it's not dependent on passing a single exam or small number of exams.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BettyJJ

Thank you very much! It makes sense now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John271009

So in the pastwhat were students called prior to taking and passing the exam? Eleverna?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heimaey

Why do you need "att" here but not elsewhere? Why not: När kommer han ha tagit studenten?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

It's acceptable to skip att here, many people do especially in speech.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/i_am_nico

What is about "utexaminera" in this context?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

Utexaminera is seen from the perspective not of the student, but the teacher or institution that gives out the degree. So it's usually used in the passive. en utexaminerad ekonom = 'an economist who has received a degree'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cathal9

is "när ska han har tagit studenten" not possible at least in the case where there is very little chance of him not graduating?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MihailDimitrov

...ska han ha tagit...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

So...."ta studenten" translates to "graduate" (verb)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

That is correct, though please note that it's only for graduating high school.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sraman314

Is it acceptable to say "När ska han (att) ha tagit studenten" to mean the same thing?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It's grammatical (without the att), but it will have a meaning closer to "When is he supposed to graduate?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sraman314

Thank you! So, to clarify, ska can replace kommer att here, but ska doesn't take att?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

ska can replace kommer att here

Yes and no - like I said, it's grammatical but it changes the meaning. They're not interchangeable.

but ska doesn't take att?

Correct. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rakhelii

Okay, I tried "ska," but was marked wrong. DUO corrected it to "kommer att." :-(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

That's because the meaning is not exactly the same as "kommer att."

If you use "ska" in this sentence, it means "he should graduate;" if you use "kommer att," it means "he will graduate" (more certain).

I hope this helps.

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