"Sicuramente lui le avrà chieste."

Translation:Certainly he will have asked for them.

July 23, 2013

36 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Blomeley

I guess the 'le' (and the 'them' in the english translation) could be referring to 'domande'. But is there any reason that it doesn't accept "Certainly he will have asked her"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fiamma90

That's because "chieste" agrees with "le", and it can only agree with the direct object, while "her" would be an indirect object. So in this case "le" is the direct object. You can use the clitic pronoun "le" as an indirect object but in this case it would be "chiesto", not "chieste". In that sentence there is no indirect object specified - you have no way of knowing who is being asked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dfjacobs

The only problem is that in the dictation, "chieste" sounds like "chiesto" to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Viaggiatore

I think "chiedere le domande" is ungrammatical (unless you mean "ask for the questions"), so I don't think le and chieste refer to domande. "Certainly he will have asked her" as a translation doesn't explain the E ending on chieste.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fiamma90

Maybe it's not the best lexical choice, but why should "chiedere le domande" be ungrammatical?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Viaggiatore

Maybe that's a better way of saying it. "Ask a question" is "fare una domanda."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fiamma90

The translation doesn't seem right to me - I would translate "Certainly he will have asked for them". Here the verb "chiedere" means "to ask for".

he will have asked them = either lui gli avrà chiesto or lui avrà chiesto loro

he will have asked her = lui le avrà chiesto (note that here "chiesto" agrees in number and gender with the subject, while in "lui le avrà chieste", "chieste" agrees with the object "le")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peter2108

Certainly he will have asked for them is the tranlation now given


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Blomeley

I thought asking to a person used an indirect object so this would have meant he asked 'her' instead of 'them'.

To say ask them the right pronoun would be 'gli', right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maloewe

this was my impression as well .. it is too bad, there aren't any explanations here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/German4me22

I will try to explain this. Firstly you have to understand that 'chiedere' is a verb that can mean two different things. It can mean 'to ask' or it can mean 'to ask for '

Forget these meanings and think of it as 'put a request ' or ' put a request for'. You are putting a request TO someone....

This is why you cannot use use chiedere when asking a question

Can I ask a question.. Posso chiedere una domanda.. HORRIBLE, I am sure it would seem like ......Can I put a request for a question . You have to use 'fare' .....Posso fare una domanda.

I ask for them = I (put a request) for them the 'them' is a direct object. ...Li (le) Chiesto .

Change the sentence to 'I ask them' ....I (put a request) them can you see that you have to put another word in here to make sense of it...I (put a request) TO them. Because it is TO them..you need an indirect object

Gli chiesto = I ask them.........Le chiesto I ask for them .

Looks messy...tried anyway


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Viaggiatore

Chiedere qualcosa a qualcuno = to ask somebody (for) something. The indirect object is the person being asked, and the direct object is the thing being asked for. So I think the translation should be Surely he (or she) will have asked him for them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Blomeley

I would say that both of you are right, and this one needs some correction


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/divaluisa

Why is "le" not her? Isn't this the Ind. Obj. pronoun? Them would be "loro"? If not, how would you say "he will have asked her" And I don't understand "asked for them"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fiamma90

"le" can be both an indirect (feminine singular) and direct (feminine plural) object pronoun. In this case it is a direct object pronoun that refers to something feminine and plural (e.g. "le sedie", "le magliette"), and you can see that because the "chieste" part of the verb changes accordingly, while it does not change when "le" is used as an indirect object pronoun: compare "lui le avrà chiesto" ("he will have asked her") and "lui gli avrà chiesto" ("he will have asked him"). It can be useful to remind that while in English you ask "for something", in Italian you ask "something" (direct object).

This is a very difficult part of Italian grammar! Clitic pronouns such as "le" and "gli" behave differently than "normal" pronouns such as "lui" and "lei". At which point of the tree is this topic presented?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/divaluisa

This is a well stated explanation. I am very grateful. It is still not totally clear, but now I know why it's not clear. I'll have to spend some time digesting the difference between Eng. & It. usage of these pronouns. Thank you very much.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/barra86

The right pronoun for them is "loro" but in this sentence them is traslated by "le" which means something female and plural. (if it was something plural and masculine it would be "li")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StanKing1

E smetti di chiamarmi "Sicuramente" :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoToutin

for sure was not accepted. Why ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cseverin80

"Surely he will have asked her" was rejected


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pablosch61

As explained by several people above- "le" only means her if it is an INDIRECT object. If it had been an indirect object here then chiestO would have been the participle--the participle only changes to agree with DIRECT OBJECTS-- but it was chiestE- which means "le" has to be a DIRECT object agreeing with the end of the participle. And in Italian, the DIRECT object of chiedere is the thing you ask for. The person you ask is an INDIRECT object.
He will have asked her- Le avra' chiesto

He will have asked for her (or a feminine it) - La avra' chiesta

He will have asked them - Avra' chiesto loro

He will have asked for them -Le avra' chieste or Li avra' chiesti


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelGit4

'le' can also mean her as well as them


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ECCA1980

How do does this translate to "Certainly he will have asked for them" and not "Certainly he will have asked him"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelASm314026

I am still confused how to differentiate between "will ask" and "will have asked"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pablosch61

chiedera' - will ask avra' chiesto -will have asked Avra' - future of have = will have. and chiesto - past particple of ask =asked


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KatriParov

Why not "he will have asked them" (for feminine plural)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StanKing1

Mr. pablosch61 explains that quite well in another message in this section.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VanirPeruffo

Wouldn´t it be "chiesto" instead of "chieste", once the auxiliary verb is "avere" and not "essere"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pablosch61

No... The use of “avere” indicates this is a transitive verb. “Essere” would be used only for an INtransitive verb, and an intransitive verb does not take direct objects, only indirect objects. And since the participle changed to “chieste” that tells you the pronoun “le” is a direct object not an indirect object. When “le” is a direct object it is the feminine plural version of “them.” Hence it is the thing that was asked for, which is a direct object which requires both “avere” since there is a direct object it is by definition a transitive verb and a change to the end of the participle to match the pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StanKing1

VanirPeruffo, to put it more simply, when the auxiliary verb is avere, the participle must agree with a preceding direct object pronoun. In other cases, it doesn't have to agree and it remains masculine singular. I'm pretty sure French is the same in this respect.

Open for discussion is whether it must agree with any preceding direct object, such as in "Questa è la cosa che ho chiesta". Google translate says no :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VanirPeruffo

Thank you both, pablosch61 and StanKing1


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pablosch61

MI fa piacere!
The other thing that makes this all so confusing is that in English we use the verb to ask and the indirect and direct objects exactly the opposite from what the Italians do in the case of chiedere. In English you "ask" someone FOR something. The person you ask is the direct object and the thing you ask "for" needs the preposition ("for") and is the indirect object.
In Italiano- si chiede qualcosa "A" qualcuno... the verb chiedere means ask FOR not just ask...and the person you ask is the indirect object needing a preposition to set it up. Or use of an indirect pronoun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VanirPeruffo

Yes, in this case Italian works like Portuguese, my mother language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lindaharris1

Why for them? Surely you can say certainly he will have asked them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StanKing1

Ms. 1, please read the excellent reply by pablosch61 in this forum. He explains it quite well.

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