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  5. "Ar aontaigh sibh é le chéile…

"Ar aontaigh sibh é le chéile?"

Translation:Did you agree it with one another?

January 5, 2015

30 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Critter80

This drives me up the wall because they have sentences that don't make sense and the moderators defend them saying that they don't have to make sense in order for you to learn. Now I don't know if this sentence is just stupid, or if the Irish is write and the English translation is just wrong. While I see in a dictionary one English usage that would allow for this translation, it is the last entry and noted as being used only in the UK. The other 10 usages will not work with this sentence. Are they trying to teach us Irish or make us learn British English?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatMcCat

I don't have any problem with a variety of translations being accepted if that's the way people speak English in their part of the world. I don't know what the percentage is of people learning this course who are Irish-from-Ireland vs people from other parts of the world. I've learned quite a bit about regional variations from the courses here by reading the discussions and I find it very interesting. In fact, there are sometimes people prepared to come to blows about such things as whether or not it's correct to say "an historic" or "a historic," and are not prepared to accept any other point of view (or, as we've seen in some sentences here, viewpoint). If, in Ireland, people do say "agree it", no problem, but since many of us (Canadian here) say "agree to it" or "agree on it", then those should also be accepted and they should be reported if not. Usually on DL, you hear that they use American English and people complain about that if the "our" endings sometimes aren't accepted rather than "or." I even went back to the "colors" section here in the Irish course to check. It seems you can't win.

On a completely other note, too bad we can't buy actual things with lingots: like beoir, for example.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Critter80

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, Cat. There are many different usages for every word. The British and the Irish also say "agree to it". "Agree it" is a special usage even in English/Irish. It's not the standard way of using it.

Beyond that, as I mentioned before, there are so many sentences in the Irish program that just don't make sense in any dialect of English. That makes it much harder to know when they are using some special sense in one dialect of English and when they are just inane. It is a major problem with this course.


[deactivated user]

    In my view the Irish sentence makes no sense, it seems to be a direct translation of the English. In Irish the construction is: aontú le duine faoi rud. So the Irish sentence ought to be: Ar aontaigh sibh le chéile faoi ?

    http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/aontaigh


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sdwilliams001

    I have never, in all my life, living here in Ireland heard anyone say "agree it".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

    "Do you both agree?" makes sense. "Agree on it" makes sense. This sentence, however, doesn't.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/khmanuel

    Agree ON it, maybe?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CatMcCat

    I can't honestly say I've ever heard anyone not including the "on" after "agree", so it should be accepted, (will report.) On the other hand, sometimes I'm not sure if I remember how to speak English either!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

    “Agree” can be transitive in at least the UK and Ireland.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/khmanuel

    I just can't imagine ever hearing it in central Virginia.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JackVMacK

    Did y'all agree to it together? was accepted - there's your central Virginia usage, I believe?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/khmanuel

    Wow. I never thought I would see the day.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Codedfox

    Irish hails from Ireland, so that's understandable.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eoin583226

    Well, I feel silly now because I've been defending dialect-specific/awkward/literal translations but this one rubs me the wrong way.

    Some people have pointed out that dictionaries list this usage. Fair enough. All I can say is I don't agree it.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daleswords

    This is very frustrating. Grammar rules ensure that ideas are formed clearly and unambiguously. Since 'agree' can be used in so many ways with differing meanings, it especially requires this clarification (about, to, on, with?), which is not present in this English translation.

    See:

    https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/73696/agree-on-vs-agree-with-vs-agree-to

    http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/agree/

    as well as many others posted above.

    Commenters on this page from Ireland, UK, and several radically differing US dialects all agree that this is wrong. So for me as a learner, it calls into question the Irish construction as well.

    What is really disturbing is that these comments go back 2 years, and yet it has been neither addressed with a clear explanation in the comments (which doesn't seem possible) nor fixed in Doulingo.

    What's up?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daleswords

    Thanks for your comment GStanford0.

    My problem is not with the Irish. I understand what you're saying about the challenges of teaching or even documenting Irish when it was nearly extinct for hundreds of years due to the British occupation, and is now being brought back in less than a century, and (ironically) even that is being done very much based on UK English usages, even using Hiberian.

    My problem is that English, with all of it's dialects and variants, is actually very well documented, with allowances for the two major dialects and some colloquialism. There are in-depth grammar references, dictionaries, and style guides on both sides of the pond. 'Did you agree it...', does not seem to exist as a proper construction in any of them, as is at least anecdotally attested to here by contributors from around most of the world (including Ireland see sdwilliams001 above). Not anywhere in any dialect, and with good reason.

    This particular element, then becomes meaningless for me as I don't and can't know what 'Ar aontaigh sibh é le chéile?' means from the lesson because its English translation is so messed up. There are even comments above that call the Irish construction into question.

    So does it mean: 'Did you agree to it' or did you agree to do some externally required action? 'Did you agree with it' or did you also believe the idea that someone or something presented as they presented it? 'Did you agree on it' or did you negotiate some contract among yourselves? 'Did you agree about it' or did you come to some settlement among yourselves about a more general topic?

    And is there a separate Irish construction for each of these, or is this same construction used for all, so the meaning will always be unclear and ambiguous?

    And as this has been commented to death, why hasn't it been fixed in 2 years?

    Note that I just came across an apparent clone of this question in which the translation show is, 'Did you agree to it...' So maybe this is only an artifact and they think it's been fixed.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/StanStanDaMan

    You have trouble with sentence construction but my problems remain spelling and pronunciation.

    I'll give you my verbose, tangential and obscure take on how to deal with Duolingo grammar translations in their state as they are now.

    It helps in wrapping one's head about something like this to remember that most of the grammar rules of the various US dialects have not been formalized but we've still had a single English language standard which has been quietly working to eliminate them for over a hundred years. Some people trivialize our Southern US dialects by calling them one inaccurate thing or another but all started as creoles of Scots Gaelic, Irish, West and Central African languages, French, Spanish and/or German; they have been Americanized over the generations until they sound mostly English. This is a mostly peaceful iterative process.

    The Irish are still very much a nation of individuals and small communities who were united under the sword and taught English. The English tried to eliminate their language but they rebelled in pockets here and there around the country. This was a violent and often bloody process. So now we really can't expect unanimity of rules as they rebuild their language and culture from the fragments of the past.

    The moderators accept numerous variations of English translations but there is a limit. My mother's family members would have probably understood as well as I do the construction: "Ya gree widem?" but I'm not clamoring to have that accepted. But with four major competing dialects of Irish you will need the flexibility to learn Irish' more diverse constructions and pronunciations when you listen to the radio shows.

    So I just memorize and go on, thinking that when I finish I'll know more than when I started. ;^)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KellyManni3

    I also thought that 'agree' wouldn't make much sense here, so I put 'did you unite it together' and it was accepted.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paquititismo

    It sounds like " a réibh to sibh é le chéile". Anyone else think that too?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jack960336

    This is not acceptable English. Something like “Did you agree with it together” would work, although there probably is a better way to say it.


    [deactivated user]

      The following might be helpful:
      agree. (n.d.) Collins COBUILD English Usage. (1992, 2004, 2011, 2012). Retrieved January 2 2016 from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agree

      Be Careful! Don't say that you 'agree something' or 'are agreed with' it. Also, when you use 'agree' in this sense, don't use the progressive. Don't say, for example, 'I am agreeing with Mark'.

      Be Careful! Don't say that you 'agree doing' something.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KittDunne

      Whether or not the English reflects usage in Virginia or Tobago or anywhere else doesn't much matter. The English is there to enable us to parse the Irish.

      More importantly: is the Irish usage correct? Can aontaigh be used with a direct object? Here is an example from the New English Irish Dictionary which may be applicable:

      "We agreed on a name" - D'aontaíomar ainm eadrainn.

      That would suggest that a direct object is allowable, but with the preposition "idir". Thus Duolingo's sentence should be "Ar aontaigh sibh é eadraibh?"

      That said, the more common usage seems to be "Ar aontaigh sibh (leis)." 'Did you agree on it.' In either case, Duolingo appears to be in error as to the Irish. (As to the English....)


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

      I read in the notes that we need "arbh" before a vowel ( arbh aisteoir í),so why is it "ar" here?


      [deactivated user]

        If it's followed by a verb starting with a vowel use ar.
        If it's followed by a noun, pronoun or adjective use arbh.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL

        To put a slightly different spin on moloughl's reply, arbh aisteoir í is a copular question. With ordinary verbs, you ask a question or negate the verb by putting a particle before the verb, but in the case of the copula, the particle becomes the copula.

        arbh is only used for a copular question (when the following word starts with a vowel). For other verbs, the past tense interrogative particle is ar even if he verb starts with a vowel (with the usual cavet about irregular verbs being irregular - some of them use an in the past tense).


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gearid15

        Cén chanúint a úsáidtear san abairt seo, le bhur dtoil?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryQuin1

        Nach n- aistrítear ' le chéile' go 'together' mar a deir an leod freisin.


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryQuin1

        Cad é an difríocht idir le chéile ( each other) agus ' le chéile ( one another)


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaryQuin1

        An bhfuil aon difríocht idir ' one another' agus ' each other". Ceann ar bith san fhoclóir ach marcaladh micheart do

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