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  5. "La lampada sta sopra il tavo…

"La lampada sta sopra il tavolo."

Translation:The lamp is on top of the table.

July 25, 2013

40 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/humanoidbot

What is the difference between "e" (with accent) and "sta"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

You are asking about essere versus stare. Both usually (but not always) translate as "to be". Two problems: the English verb carries several meanings, and Italian usage varies regionally. Here follows a translated explanation from the Accademia della Crusca - the official guardians of Italian.

The verb stare is often used instead of the verb essere, especially in phrases that express a person's behaviour or state of mind: Stare attento "To be careful", Stare in ansia "To be anxious", Stare sulle spine "To be on your toes", or in phrases that contain an order or an exhortation: Stia zitto! "Be quiet!", Sta’ seduto "Be seated!", or in fixed phrases: Se le cose stanno così... "If things are like this..." In these cases the use of stare in place of essere is legitimate and correct; in other cases the two verbs are not interchangeable: you can't say or write Sto nervoso "I'm nervous", Sta assente "I'm absent", Il lavoro sta fatto bene "The work is done well". The habit of substituting stare for essere is of southern origin; this strong regional character must be avoided in official and formal uses. With family and friends, instead, you can stay (stare) more relaxed.

The following considerations are valid for the national language, not for regional Italian (in which variable uses apply).

In the sense of "being in a given place", referring to objects, there is a nuance between the two verbs: essere expresses the location with reference to the moment of enunciation, while stare denotes the usual location; compare these two sentences:

(1) The scissors are (sono) in the first drawer to the right of the sink [where they are now, not necessarily always]. (2) The scissors are (stanno) in the drawer to the right of the sink [where they are normally placed]. NB. THIS IS DUO'S USAGE HERE.

Referring to people, the verb stare, in modern neutral use - different, in part, from past uses - generally has the sense of "staying", "residing", or indicates the posture, or, of course, the state of health. Then there are idiomatic expressions, unalterable.

For example these two sentences have a slightly different meaning: Sono contento di essere qui = "I'm happy to be here [at this precise moment]"; Sono contento di stare qui = "I'm happy to be here [always]". The first sentence expresses the place in space and time; in the second, it emphasizes instead permanence in the place of which we speak (so that, invited to dinner at a friend's house, I would always use the first: the second could be misinterpreted by some touchy soul).

The relations between the two verbs are complex, and not always clear, also because of regional differences. But phrases like Dove stai? (in the sense of "Where are you?") or Non ci sta nessuno (for "No one is present") are not acceptable in supra-regional Italian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kmandadad

I notice they use them pretty much interchangeably it seems.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GuerraAmanda

"I can really assert that “essere” is for permanent condition and “stare” for temporary. Io sono qui means “I’m here till you watch at me” so express a permanent condition (“permanent” doesn’t mean “till the end of the world”), Io sto qui means “I’m here, but in few minutes I’ll be in another place, no matter if you’ll watch at me or not”, so temporary." See this site http://serenaitalian.wordpress.com/2010/09/09/difference-between-stare-and-essere/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

Helpful link, thanks.

To an English speaker, an useful way to remember the difference is that 'stare' implies 'at the moment'.

Hence 'stare' often goes with the gerund. 'Sto aspettando' (I'm waiting) is heard a lot. I've watched 'sto mangiando' (I'm eating) being used to imply 'so don't interrupt me'! As a foreigner, I found 'sto imparando italiano' (I'm learning Italian) very useful because it tells the listener you are really trying, so responses come back in Italian rather than English, and are often accompanied by kindness.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZDanielle

Super helpful input! Thanks for using examples from actually being in Italy!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GidiZisk

In this example, the meaning is that the lamp is normally on top of the table, if you say "La lampda e il sopra tavolo" - it means the lamp is right now on the table (it is not in its regular place OR that it does not have a regular place, like a chair that is moved around the house constantly).

I quote here f.formica : "In short, when talking about being in a place or condition, stare indicates a general placement, essere the current one; sto a Roma means I'm normally in Rome, sono a Roma that I'm in Rome right now. In common usage, this distinction isn't actually applied, and depending on regional variants you might find stare used more than it ought to."

So I think Io sto qui mean in general I'm here and Io sono qui means that at this moment, I'm here


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GattoAllegro

I think you are correct, and the link is very helpful. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nayrad

No. Not at all. I knkw this from my spanish knowledge between estar and ser


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sedona2007

Sorry, but my Italian teacher said "estar" and "ser" are NOT exactly equivalent to "essere" and "stare". (I had hoped they would be). Similar in some cases but with significant differences. See the link given above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Turboslak

What happened to la lampada è sul tavolo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fernandoarg

Which are the differences between ''su'' and ''sopra''?. Thanks in advance.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrDemetr

Su = on, sopra = on top of. You can say the label is on the bottle so su(lla) would be used, but you wouldn't say the label is on top of the bottle (unless the labeller is already very drunk). In other words, sopra is more specific.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Turboslak

Sopra can also mean upstairs, like in: Dov'è il bagno? Sopra.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrDemetr

It seems 'sopra' like so many other words in so many different languages, has more than one meaning or context. The adventure continues...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Turboslak

Yes and I like that kind of flexibility, as long as it's not confusing. Like for example "I miei figli" can mean "my children" but also "my sons". That's troublesome to me because you can't always get the meaning from the context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fernandoarg

Thank you very much.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fernandoarg

Thank you very much.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Turboslak

You're welcome. The first time that I've heard it in that context was in an Italian restaurant. I learned something new that evening :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

They both have many meanings, varying with context. For su, there are loads of examples at https://www.thoughtco.com/italian-preposition-su-2011462. For sopra, there's an explanation at https://www.thoughtco.com/italian-improper-prepositions-2011436. Note especially that it gives "on top of, upon, above, over" but NOT "ON". It's a good guide: sopra is about superposition, not contact. I think Duo would be better off with "upon" here.

A huge list of examples is in the Italian-only dictionary at https://dizionari.repubblica.it/Italiano/S/sopra.html, and from there you can also get to the Italian-English version.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJP22

The lamp is on the table top is a more economical English way of saying the lamp is on top of the table.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SImon3Sofas

ok so stare is used for more transient states.. I get that, what I don't understand why we use sta here rather than è ... since we assume the lamp stays on the table (unless there is a ragno under it~), or am I over thinking this??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

stare sopra = be [situated] on


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GuerraAmanda

Would "La lampada rimane sopra il tavolo" be also correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MariaIramendy

Would it be right to say above of instead of on top of?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

No more right than wrong. On top of implies contact with the object below. Above means 'relatively higher than' and implies no contact. Both could apply to a lamp.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AleksSakota

How would one say "The lamp is above the table", in the sense it is hung or hovering?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

Al di sopra del tavolo. And you wouldn't use stare as the verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AleksSakota

So, you would use "essere" instead? La lampada è al di sopra del tavolo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Roman.sc

Should "the lamp stand on (top of) the table" be accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

That's not grammatical, or rather it is but "lamp stand" is a noun phrase meaning Il lampadario (la basa della lampada).

If you actually typed "stands", possibly yes, but si trova is normal for that meaning. Stare here means "to be" (in a place or situation).

But why not try "stands", with the spelling corrected, and let us know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Roman.sc

yes of course... too chubby fingers. I should have written/wanted to write stands. Thanks for indicating of trovarsi. That's a very good hint.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kay144809

are "essere" and "stare" basically the exact same thing as "ser" and "estar" in spanish or is there a difference?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1951K

Why can't I say The lamp is on the table?. In English top is understood


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/poftim

Why is it "sopra il tavolo" but "sopra al letto"? Why are the prepositions different?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DASTOW

What is wrong with The lamp is ON the table??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ispirac

Lampa stoji na stolu.Lampa je na stolu.Lampa je povrh stola.

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