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  5. "It is yesterday's bread."

"It is yesterday's bread."

Translation:È il pane di ieri.

July 26, 2013

65 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/damnthisaccount

Would d'ieri be acceptable here since di ends in i and ieri starts with i? I wrote "è il pane d'ieri" and was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/barra86

no we don't say "d'ieri" but "di ieri". It's like an irregular case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SinaLewis

Oooh an irregular case. Shoot I thought I was knowing stuff. Smh


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thedodosaurus

It isn't an irregular case, the "i" is like English "y", its a consonanty vowel. "Ieri" is pronounced like "yerry", with a consonant.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nick.duffy

No, its not a consonant, its a glided vowel. You pronounce I first, then the open e. [i-e]. That doesn't make it a consonant. English Y is sometimes pronounced this way, presumably due to greek inheritance, filtered through German.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2570

The diphthong /ie/ is a vowel.
The glide /j/ is a consonant.

https://www.ipachart.com/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Flysalot

So di ieri but NOT di inverno?

That was yesterday's mistake!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/anne526385

Since i was corrected on di inverno and had to change it to d'inverno, i thought (haha) that it should be d'ieri. Nope. Still got it wrong. I am getting frustrated. Just when i think i understand something, i learn i do not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Buzz415710

I'm Italian, it's a problem of pronunciation, "d'ieri" we can't say it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thedodosaurus

The first i in ieri is a consonanty sound, a "y" sound ("yerry"). Inverno starts with a vowel


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marshame

thanks! I put dell'ieri and got it rejected. So Italian has irregular cases after all!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/strbargav

I put in dell'ieri too. But that would be wrong anyway, because dell' would mean 'of the', whereas there's no 'the' here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ampus_Questor

Barra said that it's like an irregular case, not that it is one. However, it's really an exception to the general rule that final vowels are elided before words beginning with the same vowel, at least. Italian nouns (unlike those in Latin) don't have cases anyway, apart from the singular and plural forms.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thedodosaurus

Its actually not irregular—ieri and io get pronounced like "yeri" and "yo" (X-SAMPA /jEri/ and /jo/). The Y-sound here is a consonant sound, and words don't care about spelling but rather about sound.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamdunk

Thedodosauras & Rae.f - fascinating detail cementing this lesson, thank you so much.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SinaLewis

I did the same thing d'ieri instead of di ieri.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emtz2002

Whenever I hear ieri, the Ie sounds like a y. So like yeri instead of ieri. I don't think it's okay to put d'yeri. If you try saying it, it still sounds like Di yeri.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leteye0

the same with mine


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/marygbaker

Why wouldn't "È pane di ieri" be okay? Why must it be "il pane"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xxChristina

The article is almost always used in Italian :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maad234

when to use da or di is a mystery to me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KirtleyMax

da means 'from', di means 'of' or a way of describing ownership


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Naseem200170

Sometimes di can mean from such as the sentence in the previous lesson: 'I giornali soon di mesi fa.'

I still do not understand why di is used in that sentence instead of da.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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It's important to stop thinking in terms of "word X in this language can mean word Y in that language" and start thinking in terms of "they say it that way in that language and we say it this way in this language".

Once you move away from concrete nouns like "apple", fewer and fewer words have one-to-one correspondences between languages, and this is especially true for prepositions. And even when the literal meanings roughly coincide, the usage will vary tremendously because different languages use different fundamental idioms. Why are we "in bed" but "on a train" in English? Why "in the morning" but "at night"? Just because we say it one way doesn't mean other languages should.

But regarding di vs da, the official translation says "It is yesterday's bread". Arguments aside that we don't really say it that way in English, it's a good reflection of how they say it in Italian. "the Y di X" is how they say "X's Y".

In English, we're only taught about the possessive, but that's only one aspect of what's called the genitive. We have it in constructions like "the head of the class".

So "di" corresponds more closely to "of" than "from" when you analyze its overall usage within the context of Italian. It's just that sometimes we phrase or frame things differently in English, saying that the bread is "from yesterday" rather than "of yesterday".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

true, but "from yesterday" works as well as or better than "of yesterday"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2570

"from yesterday" works as well as or better than "of yesterday"

In English, maybe. But the equivalent of the English "yesterday's bread", which is a possessive form, is "pane di ieri".

"X di Y" is how you say "Y's X" in Italian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith352848

Indeed!! I spend far more time in the exercises correcting mistakes in my preposition usages than in any other aspect of the language. Has anyone tried "da?" Is it acceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HaroldWonham

Why is it wrong to say "Il pane è di ieri"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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È il pane di ieri is to Il pane è di ieri as It is yesterday's bread is to The bread is from yesterday. One has "bread" by itself in the subject, the other has "bread" in the predicate as part of a larger noun phrase.

Aside from being different grammatical constructions, they're not perfectly synonymous. È il pane di ieri is talking about some particular bread. Il pane è di ieri is a general comment about bread that might not even be present.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/erdnaoluap

Because Duolingo pointed "bread" in the end of the sentence and you translated it in the beginning. We are here to learn the difference of writting "È il pane di ieri"(It is yesterday's bread) and "Il pane è di ieri"(The bread is yesterday's) as well. Have a nice day man.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HaroldWonham

I don't understand the point you are making. Do you mean that word order is important in Italian, that it affects the stress in some way?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/erdnaoluap

No, no, Harold. I was just saying that the translation was supposed to follow the order of words displayed. I agree that the final meaning is the same, but the two sentences I wrote to you are not equal in itself, just as their parallel translations. If I say your last name before your first name you continue being who you are, but it is not the same thing and I think that you would always like to be called by your first name. Maybe I have made my point now man. Sorry, but this is all I can do to help you. Farewell!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CJCatStack

Duo suggested I use " d' " then marked it incorrect. This is so frustrating at times when trying to learn and being told to use incorrect answers.

Though I try to keep in mind Duo is free and made possible by great people.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/livvy420

Why would "e UN pane di ieri" be wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rafest

Because "un" is an indefinite article. In this case we know which bread we are talking about so the phrasing is definite.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeZeBike

What I'd love to know is where the heck did you guys learn all these concepts like indefinite articles, irregular cases, and so on?! Did you study linguistics, orthology, or just pick it up as part of your language learning? :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrewsSuzy

it's a good case for teaching grammar at school - it helps when learning foreign languages, never mind trying to explain your own!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnDavine

why is: il pane e' di ieri incorrect?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Andreas.T.P.

Why have it to be " È il panne di ieri. " and not "È un panne di ieri."?

The English sentence does not give any reference to a specific/no specific article.

[Sorry for my English]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

"Yesterday's bread" is a collective noun referring to a one or more loaves of bread. il pane allows for this interpretation, but un pane limits the expression to just one and only one loaf - it's too specific.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DerekSimms

Ha ha, somebody was obviously not pleased about you agreeing so they marked you down. I hereby mark you back up again wildroot4, I think you were maltreated there.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2570

The question is: Who are they agreeing with? They made a top-level comment rather than reply to someone. It's devoid of context and contributes nothing. The comments section is not for random chatter. It's for enhancing the learning experience.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sofie870036

Differences among di, dell, da,... etc.... I am so confused...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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https://i.imgur.com/1Uh64MZ.png

Therefore it follows the rules of which form of "the" to use:

https://i.imgur.com/aJ7Qlgb.jpg


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jae633849

È il pane di ieri, ecco perché è così economico.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dennis594481

È pane di ieri Should be accepted. There is not THE in the original sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2570

Different languages, different grammar rules.

In English, we can indicate possession by saying X's Y. In Italian, the possessive is often the Y of X. It needs the article. We have a similar construction in English: the top of the charts, the head of the class. It needs the definite article in both languages when it's in that form.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elena752540

Why do we say "lery" - yesterday, but 'ieri" - of yesterday? Are there two different Yesterday words?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2570

"Lery" is not a word in Italian. There is only "ieri" for "yesterday". "Of yesterday" is "di ieri".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Elena752540

Thanks a lot!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Abhishek6399

It's like : The bread is from yesterday


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2570

Closer to "It is bread from yesterday." What you said would be "Il pane è di ieri."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrewsSuzy

Do you ever say in Italian "c'è il pane di ieri?" or am I mixing this up with French?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iateyourpizza

This sounds like some kind of proverb. Those were worries of the past. We don't worry about it anymore.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sarah509419

I thought it should be dell'ieri. Obviously not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2570

I don't think Italians say "the yesterday".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PaulinaBra495984

I put " il pane è di ieri" and it was wrong. Why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2570

Different grammar structure.

It is yesterday's bread.
È il pane di ieri.

The bread is yesterday's.
Il pane è di ieri.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarcossLP87

I don't understand why "È pane di ieri" is not acceptable since the article "il" is not explicitly required, even though the specific meaning may change according to its context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
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  • 2570

The possessive construction "the X of Y" always requires a definite article at the start. It's the same way in English. We always need to say it as "the top of the stairs" or "the foot of the bed".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/talliagluc

I wrote "d'ieri" since ieri begins with a vowel, shouldn't it have been accepted?

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