I don't think I'm ever going to get through this section. It's utterly baffling, I've been trying to make notes to decipher the problem;
When do we translate la as her, when do we translate le as her and when do we translate le as them?
accusative form: mi - ci, ti - vi, lo/la - li/le. dative form: mi - ci, ti - vi, gli/le - loro. just analize the sentence the accusative form matches the question who/what and the dative form matches to who ex. lui le legge un libro. to who does he read? - he reads to her. lui le vede. who does he see? - he sees them
Can you explain in normal terms the meaning of "accusative" vs "dative?" Google is not helping much.
minotaurxzer- The acccusative or objective case is the noun used as a direct object. i.e. I see a dog - what do I see? a dog. Dog is the direct object of the verb see. The dative is the noun used as an indirect object, i.e. I gave you money. To whom did I give money? you. You is the indirect object of the verb gave. And money would be the direct object of the verb gave. What did I give? money. Hope this helps.
Accusative: I see them Dative: I give it to you
I give them (dative) the money (accusative)
Hope this helps
Someone else posted this link and it is VERY helpful: http://www.cyberitalian.com/en/html/gra_prpr.html#Pronouns
I was just wondering if you've gotten through this section :) I am in your shoes then, very confused...
I finished the tree a while back but am going through it again which certainly helps. However this section I find really difficult and so I have been doing just one bit every so often when I am feeling brave. I am finally at level 4 and only have three to go to get to level 5 but it has been a struggle. Other than avoiding it completely I have just plodded on often guessing or memorising the answers but I still do not understand it. Can't wait to get to level 5 and forget it now.
@Val361271 - you and I have exactly the same approach! This will be one I shall need to return to over and over … as I get the inclination ... which will not be very often!!
Being native French but having English as my second "natural" language, I totally understand the issues faced by English speaking people because of the way English is written (I failed this exercise big time because I was thinking in English). To keep is simpler always ask yourself the question. What do I ask for: the beer (not the woman! ) Who do I ask: the woman (not the beer, no ambiguity here :) ) Hence: "her" in the indirect object --> le not la, and "beer" is the direct object. An idea to simplify things for English speaking people is to "re-think" these types of sentences: I ask her for a beer = I ask a beer to her I asked him a question = I asked a question to him I bring them the books = I bring the books to them Enjoy the grammatical torture!!
I'm not 100% sure why this "Le" is the indirect object "her" as opposed to the direct object "them". "Le" is who is being asked, and the beer is what is being asked for. "I ask for a beer from her/them" is another way of saying this. Is "her/them" not the direct object there?
Because the beer is the direct object. "Her" isn't another direct object, but an indirect object, which is "le".
Thanks for all your replies. I must say, Duolingo is quite good, especially when I need a little help---such as you've been providing.
There is a lot of wrong information in this link. Check out this website for charts and explanations for this section on pronouns (i.e. la/le/lo/gli…. )
As I live and breathe, if I ever succeed at trilling my Rs the way that this digital donna does on "birra", I will consider it a major achievement!
OK, I don't understand why "I ask you for a beer" is a valid translation. I don't see any reason for that.
I do. "Lei" (with capitalised "L") is the formal (courtesy form of) "tu".
Wait, so I have two question regarding that:
- Are there no capital letters in the beginnings of sentences and names and such as in English?
- Are there any other formal forms like this one? The only one I can guess is "gli" which is probably a formal form for "lui" as in "non gli manca"
How would you say I ask them for a beer if "them" is a group of women?
Direct pronoun answer questions "whom?, what?" So when I would like to compose a sentence "I ask her for a beer" I think: I ask WHOM? Her. So "her" is direct object. Then I think: I ask for WHAT? For a beer. So beer is direct object. But I cannot have two direct objects. I must do something wrong. But indirect objects answers questions: "to whom, to what?" and I cannot answers those questions "her". To answer "HER" I need to ask "whom?" NO "to whom?"and "whom" belongs to direct object. Can someone help me here please?
The identify the direct object, ask yourself WHAT. Q: I ask for WHAT? A: a beer.
To identify the indirect object, ask TO/FOR WHOM you ask. Q: I ask for a beer (direct object) to whom; or re-worded --> to whom do I ask for that beer? A: Her.
That last post seems a bit insensitive. I'm having trouble with this too and I already am fluent with spanish. I answered the question as "I ask for a beer for her" and of course it was wrong. Would I have been right if the question was "La chiedo una birra"?