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  5. Je Suis Charlie

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kp_kxj

Je Suis Charlie

I'm Charlie. We all are Charlie. Freedom of speech should be absolute. The right to subject each others fundamental beliefs to criticism is the bedrock of an open, diverse society. Once we give up such a right in the name of tolerance or respect, we constrain our ability to confront those in power, and therefore to challenge injustice. All religions deserve equal freedom of worship and practice, but none deserve the right to freedom from criticism. I support the right to abuse and insult religion, because of the essentially irrational nature of religious beliefs. I'm sorry, I'd to say it here. I'm deeply shocked by what happened in Paris. My thoughts are with the families of the brave journalists and the cartoonists who lost their lives.

January 10, 2015

49 Comments

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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Prado39

Yeah, I agree with you. I've heard some people saying that they are not Charlie Hebdo because the magazine was too "strong". Alright, the magazine has published a few weeks ago a man, from Charlie Hebdo, kissing Maome. It is not easy to say if you believe in Maome (and it is not my case) but they need to have the right to give their opinion. And, as you can see, I think everybody has the right to express any kind of opinion, but you don't have the right to kill people only because they don't like "your god". And just for the record, Charlie Hebdo was always satirizing many "gods" or important people. Hollande, the pope and many others were the target. Et moi? Oui, je dis "Je suis Charlie".

January 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/savage_queen01

I agree with you. I mean why would you kill such innocent people in the name of religion?

January 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jasminedesi16

Hello I am Afghan and born into a Muslim family. I no longer consider myself Muslim but these terrorist are not truly Muslim. My Muslim family are outraged and ashamed over the killings at Charlie Hebdo.

January 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FKrasniqi

The terrorists believe they have done this in the name of religion, but really no religion advocates violence and killing innocent people. People have the right to express their opinions and exercise their freedom of speech. My thoughts are with the families of the victims.

January 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/savage_queen01

I agree with you. No religion ever says that if anyone says wrong about your god; kill them.

January 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/panagiotis_ts

JE SUIS CHARLIE!!!!PARIS EST CHARLIE, THESSALONIQUE EST CHARLIE, NOUS SOMMES TOUS CHARLIE!!!!!!!!! I am really shocked by the events in Paris. Charlie Hebdo is a sacred magazine, and it has proved what the results of the religious zealotry are. I'm not against islam, I'm against people who commit crimes with the "alibi" of their religion, it doesn't matter if they are Christian, Muslim, etc. Those people are so "blind" of their religion that they can't change their minds, so they must be put in jail for the rest of their lives or be killed. I totally agree with the French authorities, who killed the terrorists of the attack in Chalie Hebdo.

January 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agron73

Absolutely agreed. To personally disagree with their publications is one thing, but to advocate censorship or to somehow blame the cartoonists after they've already been murdered just repulses me. Freedom of speech is the most fundamental right we have, and we have to make it clear that we're not going to give a single inch to people who want to impose their religion on society or think that free speech is negotiable, whether Muslims or otherwise.

Nobody has the right to not be offended, and I have no problem calling the people at Charlie Hebdo incredibly brave men and heroes for refusing to submit to bullies despite multiple threats, attacks, and danger to their lives. Obviously, they're dead now because of that. My thoughts go out to the victims and everyone affected by this tragedy.

Je suis Charlie.

January 11, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/curlyeric

I'm going to leave this link below for those that wonder why we have to support the work of CH even if we, personally, find it distasteful. This was written in 2008 and it's about a different set of circumstances, one where there was threat of censure of fiction based on the topics but basics of why we have to defend speech even if we personally don't like it.

"Why defend the freedom of icky speech" http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html

"The Law is a blunt instrument. It's not a scalpel. It's a club. If there is something you consider indefensible, and there is something you consider defensible, and the same laws can take them both out, you are going to find yourself defending the indefensible."

As for CH specifically, I think that many of you are missing a huge cultural item. This is where the french would differentiate between the first and second degree. The satire of CH needs to be seen in the light of the events that drove them and they need to be seen from "the second degree" which it's readers were using to interpret it.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=731289langid=6

January 10, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aIpinestar

Ich bin Charlie.

January 12, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jasminedesi16

Je suis charlie :(

January 11, 2015

[deactivated user]

    Actually this this post should be deleted because it does not pertain to language learning. Since it's still here I am going to say a few things:

    To quote novelist Saladin Ahmed, in response to this veneration of Charlie Hebdonas some beacon of liberty: "In an unequal world, satire that "mocks everyone equally" ends up serving the powerful."

    CH was racist, Islamophobic, sexist, antisemitic, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic, ableist and all-around chauvinistic. Drawing Africans as monkeys or naked slaves on leashes held by whites? Drawing Muslims as hooknosed and carrying bombs? Drawing religious people in same-sex acts intended to make them look depraved, because same-sex acts are supposedly depraved? (I could continue, but you get the gist, I hope) While I don't believe in censorship, that is not my beacon of liberty.

    Systems of oppression exist. They are real. They are not by accident and they are not without cause. All oppression is manmade. And as long as oppression exists, this is an unequal world where the freedoms we claim to revere are exclusive property of the most powerful and privileged and they use these freedoms to perpetuate oppression of others. And often idealistic, naive arguments made to uphold these freedoms cowardly avoid confronting this reality, like all arguments made about why we should not critique CH or suggest in anyway what they did that contributed to perpetuating oppression, bigotry and hate.

    Since the attack I have been listening to Muslims, Africans and other oppressed groups that CH freely degraded. I have to listen to them via Twitter, from their individual accounts, because unlike the cartoonists at CH they have no other platform to be heard. There is no Muslim, African or Arab CH in France or anywhere in the West. These are people who have systematically excluded from the privilege of simply being heard that CH took for granted. And they are saying Je ne suis pas Charlie, because for them CH was no beacon of liberty, but a contributor and apologist for the oppression,discrimination and hatred that they face from Westerners. To them, calling CH a beacon of liberty is hypocrisy. And because I do not believe in hypocrisy and oppression anymore than I believe in censorship, I stand with them.

    JE NE SUIS PAS CHARLIE

    January 10, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lazouave

    Charlie Hebdo went sometimes too far, sometimes they were not funny. But they are not islamophobic, sexist and everything you accuse them of. They make fun of people who are all that. They have the spirit of May 1968 (which is faaaar from being bigotry and intolerance) and their only target is stupidity.

    Take the pictures, read the texts, cut them with the affairs we had in France at the same time and you'll see there's a double meaning. To foreigners (I mean people who do not live in France), it may look racist, etc. But you lack context.

    Some covers are not funny to me and borderline racist. But most of them are funny -but you need to be informed on the context they were drawn in. Please inform yourself and stop lowering down an event deeply traumatising for us.

    January 10, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-TashaJ-

    Well said ^

    January 11, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Agron73

    The paper is very left-wing and frequently makes fun of all the things you just accused them of being, especially racism. I think you and others might be misinterpreting the meaning of the cartoons; which, as they are satirical and without specific context, admittedly can be sometimes difficult to not do.

    January 11, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/curlyeric

    I will leave this here for those that want to understand WHY CH drew things the way they did. This site goes over just a sample of the works so that people can get a feel for what the underlying message was.

    http://www.understandingcharliehebdo.com/

    January 13, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mazzorano

    You're right about the fact that this post should be deleted. This is Duolingo, not Twitter.

    January 10, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sallybe

    You mention that CH is sexist, racist, anti-Semitic, etc. which shows that they aren't just selecting Muslims for their humor. No one has the right to kill someone who doesn't agree with their way of thinking. The terrorists are just murderers and nothing more.

    Where are the good Muslims? Why aren't they protesting the terrorists' actions? They remind me of the good Germans in WWII who weren't Nazis, but said nothing.

    Sally

    January 12, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/curlyeric

    Please don't do that. Once you start down that path you will quickly realize that we all all "responsible" for stopping extremism which has it's roots in global inequality in income and justice.

    January 12, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lazouave

    The "good Muslims" (I'd rather say real Muslims) were all around the streets on Sunday. The great majority of them firmly condem the terrorists's actions. You cannot imagine the number of people who were there saying "Yes, I'm a Muslim, yes, I have been offended by the caricatures, but before being Muslim, I'm French. That means I am supporting freedom of expression".

    January 13, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/julesmGGF

    the hashtag #JeSuisAhmed is being used in honor of the Muslim police officer Ahmed Merabet, who was shot protecting CH's right to make fun of his religion

    January 10, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jasminedesi16

    Woah I had no idea about Charlie Hebdo before this. I had no idea they we sexist or racist. :(

    January 11, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lazouave

    They're not. As I said above, they can look so, especially from beyond the French borders, but they're not if you get their humour :)

    January 11, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Luscinda

    Because none of the victims of any of this were actually African/Arab or otherwise from minorities, were they.

    Ourrad, Wolinski, Cayat...

    January 12, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Johnni0

    Interesting that you got more lingots than OP, but so few upvotes (or a lot of downvotes) for your opinion... Well said, though!

    January 13, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MitraShoraka

    من ایرانی هستم. من مسلمان هستم. من چارلی هستم.

    January 16, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aswaringim143

    clap clap clap tear (i am serious no sarcasum what so ever)

    January 12, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/snolan5

    YYYYEEEESSSS!!!!!!!!!

    January 13, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tel-Boy

    Well said.

    January 13, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrookeLorren

    Je suis Charlie. Yo soy Charlie. Ich bin Charlie. I am Charlie.

    What good is freedom of speech if the only speech one wants to protect is that which the majority can agree on? I don't know if France has freedom of the press or not... but those countries that do support freedom of speech have to protect the speech that people find reprehensible. Nobody has to protect speech that everyone agrees with.

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doreska

    I don't support the terrorists because I am strictly against any killing. But journalists of Charlie are not real journalists, they are criminals. To laugh at religions is not a freedom of word, it's a crime, a rude hooliganism. These people touched the feelings of many Muslims in all the world. I don't understand the position of French president. He supports this ugly magazine when his responsibility is to forbid it forever! For the false "freedom" he risks with lives of many people. European "democrasy" is a freedom to have same-sex marriages, to refuse of having children, to cruise religious feelings of other people... I despice this kind of democrasy! I am against journalists who sell their art and their souls for money!

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SimonKnigh1

    Your English reads like you're in Russia or central Asia, so I think that this is largely a cultural difference of opinion. Press freedoms are very important to us, to curtail them would be unthinkable.

    Imagine if the French Government did what you ask and closed the paper, what message would that send to the French people and also to terrorists? It would never be allowed to happen. In Russia there is much press self-censorship which isn't a good thing.

    The bottom line is to let people live as they wish to live, you cannot make others think or do as you want. Try and embrace the culture of the French people who's language you're learning.

    As for the same-sex marriage thing, unless you're venting frustration from being eternally single, gay marriage has very little to do with you, so just leave them alone. I understand that the Russian president has decided to create an enemy out of gay people to distract the Nation from it's massive economic problems, which is a shame. I'm sure if the world went snooping into your private life many people wouldn't be impressed so just live and let live.

    Also a little English help, I think you're referring to 'abortion' when you mentioned people refusing to have children?

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Basilious

    Some ideas need to be torn down, even if they belong to a religion. However, that means all ideas are fair game. We just have to be smart and think on both our feet.

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doreska

    I am a Russian writer, and I am for real freedom and real democracy. Europeans use false ideas like "live and let live" only for themselves, not for all people. "Charlie" spat in the faces of all Muslims. Yes, Muslims don't support the terrorists. But we shouldn't suffer from humiliation. I know, religion is nothing for Europeans who lost their own religions, customs, shame and conscience. So you can't understand other nations which saved their history and culture. If you don't like Islam, don't convert it but don't touch our feelings. And about gay marriages... not only Russian president but all Russian people hate it. Not because of religion! The most Russians are atheists. Even a baby can understand it. It's against the nature. French culture for me is a great French literature, poetry and architecture but not disgusting newspapers which cruise people and not unnatural marriages between two men. My English is good enough to express my opinion. I mean not abortion but the "child-free" European women. If Europe thinks that homosexuality, hooliganism and "child-free" are signs of freedom... Oh, poor Europe!

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kp_kxj

    Nobody in the free world subscribes to your bigoted views.

    January 16, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doreska

    By the way, today Russian State Supervision announced the law that forbid any caricatures against any religions. It is strictly prohibited to draw caricatures with using of Cross, Crescent, Six-Pointed Star, any holy person. And the most people support our government. This wise desicion can prevent our multicultural country from the tragic events. I am not alone in my opinion as you can see.

    January 16, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MitraShoraka

    Your views are don't belong in the 21st century darling

    January 16, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doreska

    Was the 21 century announced as a century of perverts? Should European nations die out because of unnatural marriages and child-free? I am just for healthy relations between people, my friends!

    January 16, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrookeLorren

    I think that we agree on more than you think of... except for the freedom thing ;-). Russia does not have the same freedom of the press that much of the West has. I am a Christian, so I do agree with you in some ways on same sex marriages. I also believe that masses of people choosing not to have children is harmful to society in general (for reasons having nothing to do with religion).

    I do believe that it is wrong (although not criminal) to go out and purposely make fun of another person's beliefs just to do so. Some person made a YouTube video where she put bacon bookmarks in the Koran and then burnt it on video. What good purpose does that do? It doesn't do anything productive. It's not going to convert anybody to her way of thinking either.

    While I don't think that it is right, I don't want anyone being prosecuted over it either. Once you start going down that road, you open up problems that you never meant to. For example, a couple of years ago in your country, there was someone, I think it was an actor, who said that gay people should be put into ovens. While I don't believe in gay marriage, I do believe that that sort of speech is vile. If you open the door to suppressing speech, that sort of thing would be labeled criminal in more "liberal" places on the earth. A fireman recently was fired because he wrote in a Bible study that he thought that homosexuality was against God's law. If you open the door to suppression of speech, he could go to jail.

    There have been cases where some people didn't like their neighbor's Halloween decorations because they were too creepy. Should we prosecute them?

    I'd prefer that people had more speech, rather than less. I want to know who the creepy neighbors are. I want to know who the bigots are. I want to know who the hateful people are. That way I can avoid them. When we suppress thoughts, we fail to find out who people truly are.

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jesuisthenewme

    First of all, I believe in self censorship. I don't believe that someone should say or write something that is vile or offensive to some just because of freedom of speech. I think we are all responsible for following our own moral values. I think we should try to be sensitive to the feelings of others in what we say and do. HOWEVER, I do not believe in government censorship. I do not believe that any of us has the right to control what others say. In order to do that you would need to be controlling their thoughts and feelings also. It is the diversity in this world that helps us learn. We learn about others thoughts, feelings, experiences and culture. That helps us form who we become. Censorship to make everyone say only what we want them to say, limits us keeps us from growing and learning about others. As I said I believe in self censorship and the way for us to censor what else is in this world is to not buy it, avoid it and speak out that you feel that it is inappropriate and why you will not support it but allow others to make the same choice. For the record,I see no redeeming value in child porn, anything that shows abuse of any kind or anything close to it.

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kp_kxj

    You're now calling them criminals? Shame on you. You've no idea what free speech is. You've every right to be offended by something, but you don't have the right to not be offended. Religions are nothing but a bunch of ideas. And ideas don't deserve respect especially if they're bad. Why are you against same-sex marriage? Let me guess. It's against your religion. You're living in the Bronze Age. Grow up!

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sahl.abdelrahman

    @ kp_kxj OF COURSE ALL OF US AGAINST KILLING BUT Freedom of speech is not absolute, it has to have limits. Freedom of speech should stop when it comes to humiliate and mock others especially when they have told you to stop offending them. Otherwise you insist disrespecting the others then asks for our solidarity. It doesn't come this way my friend yes I'm against killing ( second time to mention that ) but I'm not charlie as well because charlie disrespected & humiliated the most sacred person in my life

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kp_kxj

    I agree with you that freedom of speech is not absolute. The government must put a restrain on free speech when it breaks the law of the land. But, freedom of speech contains the license to offend and religion is fair game in France. Someone's religion is not an identity like race, ethnicity or skin colour. No child is born religious. In most cases, a child is indoctrinated by his parents to a particular religion. One can convert to another religion or become a non-believer. As I've said before, you've every right to be offended, but you don't have a right to not be offended. And you can't stifle free speech just because you're offended. The thought that a religion, a set of beliefs, or an idea, could be above criticism or ridicule is, to me, a scary one. Of course, you've every right to say 'je ne suis pas Charlie', and I defend your right to say it.

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sahl.abdelrahman

    @ kp_kxj,,,,,,All what I am saying here. don't degrade, humiliate and offend me. and all what you say,,,who are you!!! , I don't see you!! , just let me have limitless freedom of speech, this all what I care about, I don't care about the others even though this other is about 1.5 billion human being.

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doreska

    Why do you think that Islam is bad? Have you ever read anything about it? Have you got Muslim friends? I guess, all answers will be "No". You didn't guess. I had a lot of sex-relations with women. I was close to same-sex marriage. But I understood that it's unnatural and disgusting. In the Bronze Age people had no moral and made sex with anybody. But we are humans, not animals. Think about one thing. If somebody insulted your family (mother, father, etc.) you would appeal to the court. And you would be right! "Charlie" insulted all Muslims, hit straight to the heart. It's more than mother or father, more than false "freedom of speech". Terrorists are killers but killed journalists are bullies and provocators. They are equal in their terrible intolerance.

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kp_kxj

    I never said Islam is bad. There are some very dangerous ideas in the scriptures of all religions. These ideas need to be questioned, criticised and ridiculed so that religions get reformed. Do you honestly believe that prosecuting apostates, blasphemers and homosexuals is a very good idea? I've many Muslim friends, but none of them are fundamentalists. They don't believe in all the verses of the Quran. How did you figure out that homosexuality is unnatural? You should read a bit more before coming to a conclusion. For starters, wiki 'homosexuality'. You're a animal too. All human beings are African apes. It's futile to say this to you because you probably don't believe in evolution. Charlie Hebdo didn't insult a Muslim individual, nor did it insult Muslims in general. They lampooned all religions and religious figures. Most people don't know that their cartoons addressed issues like homophobia, Islamophobia and racism. They didn't incite violence against anyone or break any law. Still if anyone feels that she's offended by some of their cartoons, she can go to the court. The thing is that Muslims in France are okay with their cartoons because they've the highest regard for freedom of expression. You can insult Charlie Hebdo and I may not like you insulting them, and you may not like anything that I've said here, but as you write your own reply, just remember that Charlie Hebdo's staff died standing up for your right to do so.

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doreska

    If people don't believe in all verses of Quran they are not real Muslims! Quran can't be critisysed in any case. I understand it though I am not a fundamentalist too. I have an open mind and I think homosexualists can have equal rights with other people. But they should understand that it's not normal. I know, European governments and mass media inspire people that all sexual orientations are normal. I don't want to argue more about the things which are obvious. Homosexualists can't have children, can't take part in evolution so it's not natural. Yes, they can have their own lifestyle but shouldn't demonstrate their sex-relations to society. European countries gave rights to homosexualists... maybe after 5 years they will give rights to zoophiles, pedophiles, necrophiles, other perverts? I don't want to bahave like "Charlie" and touch somebody's feelings. I am just a Russian writer, I suffered a lot from the lack of "freedom of speech". But I think, all writers and journalists should be creators of kindness not cruelty, To respect all people, all opinions and don't provocate rasial and religious hostility.

    January 15, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/baoqipei

    bien dit !

    January 14, 2015

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/doreska

    Merci beaucoup!

    January 15, 2015

    [deactivated user]

      Mi estas Charlie

      March 14, 2018
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