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"How efficient are the horses?"

Translation:Quanto sono efficaci i cavalli?

July 27, 2013

44 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tomasmmena

I believe "efficace" and "efficiente" have different meanings in the same way that "effective" and "efficient" mean different things. I think "How effective are the horses?" would be a more accurate translation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

I think we are looking at subtly different meanings in the two languages.

In English, confusing efficient and effective is a classic schoolchild's error, of which English teachers are heartily fed up. "Being effective is about doing the right things, while being efficient is about doing things right". Effective is whether something produces a desired effect. Efficient is how well the effect is produced, and in theory can be calculated as units output per unit input.

I think Italian has a different logic, which I find hard to figure out. Dictionary examples suggest that efficiente applied to a person (or a horse or a machine) translates to "efficient", but to non-actors (e.g. a process, a method, a remedy) it translates to "effective". Duo doesn't follow this logic.

There's another Italian phrase for the English "efficient": di buon rendimento. The noun means yield, performance, efficiency or duty according to context. Unfortunately I don't think there's a related adjective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duolessio

I confirm this. Efficiente is more like productive, like a horse which doesn't eat too much but still runs for a long time before getting tired. "cavalli" is also a commonly used short form of "cavalli vapore", which would fit better than my example with horses in terms of an engine efficiency.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/01nick1988

That's what I'm lead to believe from peeking too


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CharlesTay803834

An 'efficace' summary; thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mazzorano

Why not "Quanti efficaci sono i cavalli?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duolessio

In this case "quanto" doesn't have to agree in gender and number with the noun, since it's not an adjective referring to it. "Quanto + adj" is equivalent to "how + adj" in the English construction. However, when translating "how much/many", you'd have literally "quanto tanto/a/i/e" which becomes just "quanto/a/i/e". That's the only case you have a declensed form of "quanto".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GScottOliver

2020-01-16 As Duolessio said, but also the verb should come directly after quanto, not after the adjective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CheeseS

"How efficiente are the horses!" could be translate also as "Come sono efficaci i cavalli!", or not??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnrush

Think of 'how much' and 'how many' as 'quanto'; and 'how, in what way' as 'come'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wanhm

Come is not accepted in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnrush

'Come' is 'in quale modo' how, but 'quanto' is 'in che misura' how: 'in what way' versus 'to what degree'. Here the sentence is, in effect, 'To what degree are the horses efficient', so quanto is used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wanhm

Oh yes. Thanks for your explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Terence544359

John I am sure that you are right but I thought "come" was more appropriate because the sentence is about the efficiency of horses and not motors . With motors the response would be perhaps, that the motor is 70% efficient, in which case quanto is clearly the correct interrogative. Whereas, with horse when talking about their efficiency we would not describe it's efficiency in numerical terms but rather in the general attributes of the horse ? What do you think ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

I agree with you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/donna.mcph

A short explanation that is easy to remember....thank you!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna686521

Thanks for a simple answer that I can remember.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hanan1948

my translation was: quanto efficaci sono i cavalli. It was correct, but how would an Italian prefer to say it ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duolessio

It's ok but I think it's more natural with the verb before the adjective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/donnast

Can you not use Come for "how" in this instance? I wrote Come efficaci sono i cavalli.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

"How" = come for most things, but not for quantities. "How much/many" = quanto/i, obviously. Less obvious but logical is when the "much" is replaced by an adjective of degree like "long", or "effective" as here. [If Duo means "efficient" the answer should be efficiente. English speakers often get them mixed up too.]

There's one context in which come / quanto are interchangeable, and that's as an intensifier in an exclamation: "How effective the horses are!". In Duo's example there is no exclamation mark and the English word order is wrong. Even if these were present and correct, your Italian word order is wrong: it should have been Come sono efficaci i cavalli!.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoyCooper50

I also used "come" because it was the only option suggested when I hovered over the word "how"! And then it was marked wrong!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MichaelWat541241

Is DL certain that "Quanto efficaci sono i cavalli" is not also acceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hanan1948

Look at my previous entry. This was also my translation and it was accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/forest607889

Duolingo said it was wrong when I said it that way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CH_lang

I also put "Quanto efficaci sono i cavalli" ; it was not accepted. I'm assuming the word order is the issue, but i would be grateful to be directed to any relevant grammar lesson, as I don't have any on DL.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

Italian word order is pretty fluid, but here quanto is an (interrogative) adverb, and you don't really want to separate it from the verb or adjective that it modifies. It's a general 'rule'.

References in grammar to quanto è specifically seem to be rare, but the Treccani dictionary says "Come avv[erbio]: ... modificando un agg[ettivo]: quant’è lungo il cammino?. This order makes for easy additions, such as ... più lungo ..., and compound tenses. If you think of the noun first, it's perfectly OK to say I cavalli, quanto sono efficaci? I'm not sure about ... sono quanto efficaci?.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Macossay

Quanto efficaci sono i cavalli was accepted Feb 2018


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BarbaraDeCerchio

Here's my question: How on earth would anyone answer this question, either in Italian or in English? What does "how efficient are the horses" mean anyway? Sorry; it's a ridiculous question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

On Earth we would answer it variously, such as "very, fairly, not very, not at all, 40% (meaning power output divided by power input)", etc. How about your planet? :-) If you ignore Duo's literal translation by dropping "the", you have "How efficient are horses?" - a genuine question of biophysics or agriculture.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jasonlong97

Che efficaci sono i cavalli?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duolessio

Nope, you have to use "quanto".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CinziaL52

Got it, Johnrush. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ruckelhaxan

Could somebody please explain to me why Come efficaci sono i cavalli? is incorrect? I interpret this question of efficiency as to what extent the horses are of use, not an inquiry into how strong they are.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LindaWiles

It is accepted now.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ghogoh

In addition to all valid questions about where 'sono' should go in the sentence, as discussed here, I would kindly point out to DL that, just like 'efficient' and 'effective' have significantly different meanings in English, I frivolously assume the same semantic distinction applies to 'efficiente' and 'efficace'.

So, DL, please, respect the correspondence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LilaPowell3

Does anyone have an actual clue as to how to pick the order of words in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith352848

I'm coming to the conclusion that the answer is to start again, be born in Italy, grow to your present age, and it will all become clear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nstallaert2

Why is it "quanto" and not "quanti" here when we are talking about horses (plural)?

And why is "efficaci" AFTER "sono"? I put "quanti efficaci sono i cavalli" (thinking it literally translates to "how efficient are the horses" and was marked wrong, but I will try to just change "quanti" to "quanto" next time and see if where I put the adjective will be accepted that way too or not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johnrush

Quanto can be an adjective or an adverb, here it is an interrogative adverb. Adverbs are fixed words that do not change, just as the interrogative adverbs perché, dove, and quando do not change.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lisa_Kay_

FYI: Quanto sono efficienti i cavalli? was also accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CinziaL52

Why not "quanti," insteadbif "quanto?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LeandroSab4

Quanto i cavalli sono efficaci? Couldn't be?

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