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  5. "Det här brödet är franskt."

"Det här brödet är franskt."

Translation:This bread is French.

January 12, 2015

34 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aranworld

Why is it considered wrong to translate this as:

This is French bread.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

A better Swedish translation for that would be Det här är franskt bröd. That's also a good sentence, but not the same as the one we have here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aranworld

But this question is about translating to English. To me, "this is French bread" is a more natural sounding English sentence than "this bread is French." It seems too rigid of Duolingo if word order of the English is required to follow the word order of the Swedish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

There's a difference in meaning between the two sentences though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aranworld

If we were using a different sentence, for example, Det här bröd är grekiskt, then there is absolutely no difference in meaning whatsoever. The English phrases "This bread is Greek" and "This is Greek bread" are 100% interchangeable. The latter is BY FAR the most natural sounding one for native English speakers.

The confusion in this particular sentence comes from the fact that "French bread" is a specific thing. In the same vein, "This is French toast" does not mean the same as "This toast is French."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aranworld

They are 100% interchangeable when there is no context.

If someone asked me "What is this?" I would answer with "It's French bread" or "It's Greek bread." I don't think I would ever use the word "this" in my answer. When I see a sentence start with "This is ..." I do not think of it as an answer to a question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

They are not 100% interchangeable.
If someone asked you 'What is this?' I don't think you would answer 'This bread is French'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rwhodges

You will be frustrated constantly with this course if you try to use any context-free translation you like. You generally have to try to match the sentence as closely as you can if there are two alternatives, and use your imagination to come up with a situation in which that one would be preferred over the other. This allows the course to teach more, which you grow to appreciate over time. For example, even when two forms are interchangeable, the fact that both forms exist in both languages is useful to know. If it marks you right for something that has another more direct translation, it's not teaching you that. You will enjoy the course more if you accept that as part of its underlying approach.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/freeboprich

I'm confused, can you explain why they're different? I don't see it...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aranworld

The best I can think of is that, in colloquial English, "French bread" is a specific thing: a baguette. Thus, if I were serving a Pain Poilane, I might actually say "this bread is French" to clarify that I am not talking about a baguette, but rather a different variety of bread from France.

Swedish uses words like franskbröd and långfranska to refer to the thing we call "French bread."

The fact that this sentence example does not use franskbröd or långfranska is a good indication that using the English "French bread" would be incorrect.

I agree, however, that "this bread is French" would be a very unusual thing to say in English. It is 100% NOT what anyone would ever say while pointing at a baguette. It would only be something said while pointing at another variety of bread from France.

This is where Duolingo might benefit from pictures to provide some sense of context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

I think this is one of these things that are so simple that they are hard to explain, so it's easy to overthink. I'll just make a very simplistic effort:

You point to Unknown Object X: This is French bread.
You point to Known Piece of Bread: This bread is French.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fVJYP11G

I agree. I'm English. I don't understand 'aranworld's' response. Plus, I have no idea that in Sweden 'franskbröd' exists so it's a pain to have to guess that. Even if I did, I would only use 'this bread is French' in a sentence distinguishing two things 'This bread is Swedish bread and this bread is Italian'. Why I would ever need that sentence, I have no idea, but can see the grammar is useful for other contexts. But, in this instance it is too much of a fragment to make sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Maarten823597

I agree. I also typed in the same answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Charlieboy1980

Every time I've been to France, I've only ever seen French bread for sale!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/freeboprich

Exactly what I came to ask, it needs to be added as an alternate translation (if not preferable and far more natural).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aranworld

But what if the speaker is talking about a loaf of whole wheat bread that just happens to be from France. In that case, I'm not sure I would use the phrase "This is French bread."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kounsh

Does " Det här bröd är franskt" also make sense?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

No, with det här you must always use the definite form. But you could use detta, and in that case you should use the indefinite form: detta bröd means the same as det här brödet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kounsh

Thank you for the help :) Then, "det här" and "detta" mean the same, only that the former requires definite form and the latter requires indefinite form?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

Yes, exactly. It's mostly a matter of taste which one you choose, it can also be a little regional, but it doesn't really matter. (Detta can be a little more formal sometimes, too).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lundgren8

In the south we prefer using detta over det här, but then you use it with the definite as well: detta brödet. Without the article it sounds a bit formal. Here is a rough map where detta is preferred (red), and where det här is preferred, but people use both of course.

Source


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Woodahooda

Why is it 'brödet' instead of just 'bröd'. I remember reading why before, but I can't remember.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rwhodges

The noun always goes definite when you use den här, det här, de här. It's just one of the rules of the grammar. (But it doesn't happen, in written form, with the alternative equivalents denna, detta, dessa. See https://www.duolingo.com/skill/sv/Determiners .)

It also happens when an adjective takes the place of här too (and incidentally, the adjective goes into its definite form, which is the same as the "plural" form): e.g. det vita brödet (cf. vitt bröd).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tachyon6

Maybe a bit offtopic but noticed when I get an answer wrong the question directly repeated. In earlier versions the wrongly answered question are repeated at the end. The old method works much better because now you just try one of the other answers instead of trying to remember/decipher the actual words and their meaning. Please revert this change or create a setting so other people who don't agree can use the current method.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/potatoeglot

As far as I know, questions are only directly repeated if that particular question is the last one for the lesson/review and you get it wrong. So technically it's still repeated at the end.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Marit0361

Is the pronunciation of 'här' different then 'har'? I thought this sentence was du har instead of det här and I'm wondering how I can keep them apart with listening exercises


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Yes, sorry - they are two completely different vowels.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sleepy907525

And it speaks Baguette


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MonsieurCal

Alla vet att franskt bröd är god, men har ni ett berömdt bröd i Sverige? Jag lagade "Limpa" en gång, vet ni det?

Please correct any and all my errors if you want.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

"Alla vet att franskt bröd är gott, men finns det något känt bröd från Sverige? Jag bakade limpa en gång, känner ni till det?"

As far as Swedish bread goes, there's knäckebröd.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aranworld

Limpa är ett smakligt bröd från Sverige. Man äter det ofta till frukost. Jag tycker om smör och ost på limpa.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ben391264

This sentence is a bit of a pain...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/X4WbO3Zy

This is a French bread. Why not I have never heard anyone say in English, This bread is French.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It's a slightly different sentence construction, though, so that's probably why it isn't accepted.

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