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  5. "The forks are yours."

"The forks are yours."

Translation:Le forchette sono le tue.

July 29, 2013

74 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CreyB

Forchetta is a feminine noun. The possessive adjectives used with feminine nouns are "tua" (singular object) and "tue" (plural object). The gender of the possessive adjective follows the thing possessed (in this case, the forks), and not the possessor. The "le" in "le tue" is a direct object pronoun referring to "le forchette".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RocioN

But it could be "le forchette sono tue", if we are not talking about specific forks, right?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dr.Geist

Thanks for that important comment! That's exactly what I was wondering about... Now I got it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

From what I understand, this is the distinction between "Le forchette sono le tue" and "Le forchette sono tue":

Le forchette sono le tue ~ The FORKS (and not something else) are yours.
Le forchette sono tue ~ The forks are YOURS (and not someone else's).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Don591132

Yea that's what i used, but you've probably already figured that out in the past two years. So cheers to this useless comment.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xyphax

Crey, I believe that is incorrect. The le in 'le tue' is a definite article preceding the possessive pronoun tue ... as in 'le forchette sono le tue (forchette).'

see #2 on Nitram's list here

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/1012366


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jmbltbrewer

"Yours" in English is both singular and plural. How is one to know the answer is "Le forchette sono le tue." and not also " Le forchette sono la tua?" One person can have many forks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CreyB

For 2nd person plural, it would be "Le forchette sono le vostre". Remember that the possessive adjectives follow the thing possessed, not the possessor. In the original sentence, "tue" is used to indicate the possessor is 2nd person singular AND that the thing possessed is feminine plural. In "Le forchette sono la tua", the direct object "la", which refers to "le forchette" would not be the correct form (it needs to be the plural form) and the possessive is also the wrong form for the same reason.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jomulcahy

le forchette sono i vostri - would it not be appropriate? to say the forks belonged to many people (you all)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

No. Please re-read the comment you responded to. It would need to be "le vostre", not "i vostri", because "le forchette" is feminine and the possessive must agree with it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jmbltbrewer

The original sentence was in English. Thank you for your reply. I guess Duolingo is testing beyond the teaching but it is still a great tool. I appreciate your taking the time to reply.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JoannaMcIn1

No, because 'le forchette' is plural and therefore THEY are yours, plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/beano211

Why can't the answer also be "le forchette sono le sue" ... as in using the polite version of you? I ticked two answers..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TiagoMoita_PT

I would say that means "his/hers". For it to be "yours", the informal way, you would have to capitalize the "S" in "Sue", much like "lei" becomes "Lei", but I got it wrong too... Can anyone clarify this please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

I tried the capital S and it was rejected - in a practice of the Formal You topic! Reporting it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dreititita

You would need to capitalize "le" to say it the polite version. I don't think duolingo is gonna accept it anyways though


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MsCobb

I did the same, B211, and would like to understand why it was incorrect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ulului

I had "Le forcette [...]" as an answer, but the "peek"-correction said "inforca". However, this is wrong...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/drysponge

Same thing happened to me! I was going to write forcette, but peeked because I wasn't absolutely sure. The peek answer must be the verb and it threw me off!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamieJohn

Why cant it be le forchette sono tuoi


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Indielover

Because "forchette" is feminine plural, therefore it needs feminine plural article, which is "tue". "Tuoi" is masculine plural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rmjenkins

Since yours could refer to a group shouldn't "Le forchette sono vostre." be acceptable (or "..sono le vostre." if you prefer)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xyphax

'le forchette sono le vostre' is accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tea_B

I am just wondering, is it okay to just say "sono tue", or does it have to be "sono le tue"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

I posted a question about this in the general Italian discussion board. It apparently has to do with what aspect of the possession you're emphasizing.

  • Including the definite article with the possessive pronoun means "this thing (and not the other thing) is someone's".
  • Excluding the definite article with the possessive pronoun means "this thing belongs to this person (and not someone else)".

  • "La gatta è la mia" means "The cat (and not that cat) is mine."

  • "La gatta è mia" means "The cat is mine (and not his)."

Except for unmodified singular family members, the definite article is always required with the possessive adjective.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrDemetr

I can't remember a lesson where you don't use the definite pronoun before the possessive adjectives, apart from singular nouns referring to relatives or family. I may be corrected. Standby for further comments.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Langrt

It "le sue" should be correct too, because it is not clear how familiar the two persons are


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/malcolmissimo

Be aware that formal pronouns and possessives are capitalised (le Sue) in writing ... but Duo completely ignores the case of what we type, so you are still right anyway ... but Duo is also inconsistent in accepting/rejecting formal you. Can't win!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

I'm informed by a native Italian speaker who lives in Italy that this capitalization is slowly falling out of style, and it is not considered wrong in many contexts to write the formal "you/your/yours" in lower case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/npmauad

Why not "Le forchette sono tue"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrDemetr

It accepted 'Le forchette sono tue' for me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mr_Echo

Is "le" necessary when using tue?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

When it's the possessive article (le tue forchette) then "le" is mandatory.
When it's the possessive pronoun (sono tue) then "le" is optional, but the meaning subtly changes.

(This is true of all definite articles, singular and plural, masculine and feminine.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alan864604

Do people really say "le tue"? Because to me it sounds redundant.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

It's not redundant, and yes, that is how it works in Italian.

Possessive pronoun:
"è la mia" means "The thing (and not something else) is mine."
"è mia" means "The thing is mine (and not his)."

Possessive adjective:
"la mia forchetta è ..." is the only way to say it. The only exception is singular family members. Then it's just "mia madre è ..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tracie279235

Why is "le forchette sono i tuoi" wrong? I missed it after trying this just to see if it was acceptable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

Because "le forchette" is feminine and "i tuoi" is masculine. It needs to be "Le forchette sono le tue".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

In Italian, possessives (like articles and adjectives) must agree with the noun it goes with, not with who owns the thing. So it's always "la forchetta è la tua" regardless of whether it belongs to a man or a woman.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/1Vj59RB3

Why is le placed before tue


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

That's just how Italian grammar works with the possessive.

For the possessive adjective, you must always include the definite article except with singular family members:

  • la mia forchetta
  • le mie forchette
  • mio fratello
  • i miei fratelli

For the possessive pronoun, including or omitting the definite article subtly changes the emphasis:

  • "La gatta è la mia" means "The CAT (and not something else) is mine."
  • "La gatta è mia" means "The cat is MINE (and not someone else's)."

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jordanboughner

Can someone explain how to determine which possessive word should be used in certain cases?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

The possessive, like any other adjective, must agree in gender and number with the noun its attached to. Therefore it is always "le forchette sono (le) tue/vostre" regardless of who "you" in particular are.

IO (I)
il mio is "my (singular masculine thing)"
i miei is "my (plural masculine things)"
la mia is "my (singular feminine thing)"
le mie is "my (plural feminine things)"

The "tu" part of "tue" means you're addressing one person informally. Similarly, the "vostr" part of "vostre" means you're addressing more than one person informally.

TU (you, singular, informal)
il tuo = your singular masculine thing
i tuoi = your plural masculine/mixed/unknown things
la tua = your singular feminine thing
le tue = your plural feminine things

LUI (he); LEI (she or you, singular, formal)
il suo = his/her/your singular masculine thing
i suoi = his/her/your plural masculine/mixed/unknown things
la sua = his/her/your singular feminine thing
le sue = his/her/your plural feminine things

VOI (you, plural, informal)
il vostro = your singular masculine thing
i vostri = your plural masculine/mixed/unknown things
la vostra = your singular feminine thing
le vostre = your plural feminine things

LORO (they or you, plural, formal)
il loro = their/your singular masculine thing
i loro = their/your plural masculine/mixed/unknown things
la loro = their/your singular feminine thing
le loro = their/your plural feminine things

When it's the possessive adjective (my fork/his fork; la mia forchetta/la sua forchetta/etc.), the definite article is always used. The exception is singular family members:

  • mia sorella
  • le mie sorelle
  • mio fratello
  • i miei fratelli

When it's the possessive pronoun (mine/yours/hers/etc.), whether the definite article is used or not depends on a subtle distinction:

  • "La forchetta è la mia" means "The FORK (and not something else) is mine."
  • "La forchetta è mia" means "The fork is MINE (and not someone else's)."

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChrisMc73

Thank you for this great summary - while I'm really enjoying the approach Duolingo takes, there's times that I just need a list spelled out rather than picking up rules by examples.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rosie859380

Why is it not tuoi


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

Because forchette is feminine and the possessive needs to agree.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/I-AM-THE-STAR

The forks are yours and the sandwiches you have are mine...XD


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CarlaCulve

instead of le tue, why not i vostri?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

It would need to be "le vostre", because "forchetta" is feminine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jomulcahy

can it not be a plural ' yours' - therefore vostri?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YvonneYona

There is a mistake.Only one le


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

"Le forchette sono tue" is also a valid answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rob764802

Why can't it be: " sono le tue forchette" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

That would be "They are your forks." Different construction.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Grace716704

What's the difference between i tuoi and le tue?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

Masculine vs feminine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jillianfw

I read your comments, but it's still counting "le forchette sono le vostre" as incorrect. How can I better understand when it's secondary singular or plural when English doesn't specify?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

You made a top-level comment instead of replying to anyone, so it's not clear who you're addressing (although I suspect that's me--next time please reply to people directly).

"Le forchette sono le vostre" is a valid translation. There are a few reasons why the correction algorithm could have marked you wrong, including a typo on your part or a glitch on its end. It is conceivable the course contributors neglected to add it to the answer database, although I would be surprised if that were the case. You can always double-check your answer for typos and then flag it and report "My answer should be accepted."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/esin157522

What is wrong with it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

"it" is "esso", a simple pronoun.

"The forks are yours" is "Le forchette sono le tue", a full sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fazliniismail

How to know the noun is feminine or masculine?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

Italian is relatively regular. Most of the time it follows this pattern:

If the noun ends in: Then it is:
-o masculine singular
-i masculine plural
-a feminine singular
-e feminine plural

There are a handful of exceptions:

  • If a noun ends in -e in the singular and -i in the plural, then you just need to memorize on a case-by-case basis whether it's masculine or feminine.
  • If a noun ends in any other letter, it is a foreign loanword and is almost guaranteed to be masculine. The singular and plural forms are generally the same.

These are the rules for how the articles work:

Rules for the definite article:

https://i.imgur.com/aJ7Qlgb.jpg

Rules for the indefinite article:
Masculine

https://i.imgur.com/ioiRcSS.png

Feminine

https://i.imgur.com/7WZMfoO.png


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JavierTara3

For Lei (You formal) can you use Le forchette sono le sue?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

Not just can--must.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZiggyDalzi

For "the forks are yours" I answered "le forchette sei le tue", but it wanted sono, not sei. Why does it want the loro form here? I thought the tu form made more sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xyphax

The verb must conjugate based on the subject, so 'sono' not 'sei' because 'le forchette sono' ...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZiggyDalzi

Thank you. So is "la forchetta sei la tua" a correct usage of sei?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xyphax

Almost. 'La forchetta è la tua.' It takes third person singular. http://italian.about.com/library/verb/blverb_essere.htm


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robagio

I also checked "Le forchette sono sue." I thought that "Lei", as in the formal "you", uses the suo/sua/suoi/sue form of possessives. Would my answer be right or wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rae.F
Mod
  • 2478

I believe you're right, but I don't know if Duo includes that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CailinWebb

There was no sono in tge boxes.

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