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"Lui ed io vogliamo una birra."

Translation:He and I want a beer.

July 30, 2013

145 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AngelDMartinezC

In italian grammar you say "Io e lui" and not "lui ed io" as they wrote.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LiliJam2

Or just use "we/noi".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

...but you have to translate "io e lui", not "noi"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

..and after THREE years this elementary mistake remains! But who takes care of this course?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

...and now the years are FOUR! Congratulations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DrThackery

Six? I don't see dates so who knows


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

Yes, six (Feb.'20)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ivsontiago

I came from the future to let you guys know that this error has been here for 37 years.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/heidipoole

Just like in classical Latin!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lupellus

Just like in Afrikaans as well: "Ek en hy". Good to know. Have a lingot.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GisellV2

Lui va per primo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Randonneur3

In another place in Duo Ita the inversion is there for an exercise, as it would be here if consistency prevailed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/o-HELENA-o

Good to know. Thx


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GisellV2

"Lui" va per primo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

Chi glielo ha detto?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

Not true and congratulations for the 154 !


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selene0924

I agree, however I believe that they just did this to showcase an instance of using ed although it has many other examples to use, perhaps I guess their aim is to remain very basic. For instance like how a preschooler speaks. Just gussing though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alilat

so romantic, we are sharing a glass of beer together :">


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JordanRiac

When do you use e over ed?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

On the whole 'e' is the more common version of 'and' used. However, almost always when the 'e/ed' separates two identical vowels you use 'ed' instead of 'e'. So for lui ed io it is because there is an i before and after the ed. Apart from that I'm afraid that when ed is used instead of e the best answer is 'when it sounds better'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

...same with a/ad (=to): andare a Torino (= to go to Turin); andare ad Ancona (to go to Ancona)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/parya2

Tbanks for your explanation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Girishkorgaonkar

Very well explained. Simple yet useful. Grazie


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/purdy1

Why not 'He and I 'would like' a beer??'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/notesurfer

Because "would like" is generally considered to be the present conditional tense in Italian. For example, the difference between "io voglio" (I want) and "io vorrei" (I would like). In this case "we would like" would be "noi vorremmo."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AernJardos

Man, I could not make out "vogliamo" no matter how many times I listened to it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/starleigh

Agreed - the recorded voice in the Italian lessons is extremely hard to understand. I was doing some Spanish lessons and found the voice in that one to be much better and clearer. This one sounds way too robotic and unnatural.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AdventuresAgency

I had to memorize the question from the other times. :/


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndrDemetr

Yep, sounds more like coroliamo. Even slowed down the 'v' sounds like 'c'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/awalker888

Does anyone know why ed means a "twentieth-century artist" as well as "and"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ThokozaniR

Why is him and I want a beer wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Basically it's because if you took out the 'and I' 'Him want a beer' or even 'Him wants a beer' sounds wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jane303781

Because in English it should be "He and I". HIM is a word that recieves action, HE is a word that creates action.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

There's somebody in the crowd and you point him out: "That's him!"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

duoLingo prefer's formal classroom English (which would be "He and I want a beer."). In everyday English it's fine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

Maybe you don't believe in everyday English. Or prerogative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GiScheffel

The most true phrase ever


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nonna602151

Does this mean we're sharing a beer or we each want one? In English we'd use "each" to clarify, but how would you do this in Italian? "Ognuon" seems awkward.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndreeaAlb855351

English is not my first language but I think "lui ed io" should translate as "him and I". I could be wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FiT4do

No. Him and I would be incorrect English. It is He and I. However, this sentence is basically a bad example. In English it would be more natural to say we would both like a beer please (it is unlikely you would ever hear He and I want a beer - and additionally this is a very rude way to speak in English!!). In UK you would probably hear people saying please at least a few times! : )


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

it's not incorrect if nobody's grading you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FiT4do

Him and I is something that a young English child might say but would be strange to hear from an adult. In written English it would also be awkward and clumsy.

If you and a friend were together then saying he and I is awkward and clumsy. It is more natural to say We would like a couple of beers please.

If you are in a crowd it would be natural to say 'He and I would like a beer' the unspoken implication is that each of you would like a beer. You could also say He and I would like a beer each. Two beers for us please.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/beckyberry

Why is birra feminine


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Well, we know it is feminine because it ends with an 'a'. If you are asking why any word is masculine or feminine. I don't know if there is a particular reason.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alon-j

It also is in Hebrew, probably because it ends with the feminine vowel ה' as well. Wine (Yayin) is masculine (in Hebrew). Funny think, languages.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LovroV

Lol ends with "a"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Well, there are exceptions, but in general Italian nouns if singular and masculine end either with 'o' or 'e' and feminine tend to end with an 'a'. There are some exceptions, but you learn those as you go. "birra" - feminine - beer. "burro" - masculine - butter.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

Here the list of m. nouns ending in "a": http://www.locuta.com/masc_a.html


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trinity.paints

What is the difference between "e" and "ed"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/pennantao

in the explanation either 'e' or 'ed' can be used when expressing the work and...

but is saying one over the other used more with certain economic culture? for eg, would a middle class/posh person use one word over the other?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BookerPrizWinner

So the English rule of the first person coming second is reversed in Italian? Does it make any difference whom is paying for the beer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Sorry? I'm not sure which rule you are talking about. He and I want a beer is the order it would be in English. I and he want a beer sounds awfully wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeldeParis

Grammatically, 'I and he want a beer' is correct. It sounds awfully 'wrong' only because as the original poster realizes, it is polite to put yourself second/last when you are speaking of yourself and another person or persons (Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice and I all want beers).

If you would say, 'I want a beer and he wants a beer,' then grammatically, there's nothing wrong in saying, 'I and he want a beer.' You are using the subject-form of the pronouns in both cases.

It's just not considered polite to 'put yourself first.' The reason it sounds 'awfully wrong' to you is possibly that you are either well-brought up and surrounded by well-mannered people, or well-educated and surrounded by people who are attuned to the differences between how a laborer/uneducated person speaks and how an educated person speaks. You've acquired the idiom of the educated class without knowing that there was a 'rule' involved - the rule of good manners, not of grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

...it's impolite to put "I" first, but it's perfectly polite to put the capital letter for "I" and the small one for all the other people...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

'Who' is paying for the beer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BarbaraGil14

would like and want are the same in English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Not according to my mother.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeldeParis

Ah, now I see why you were puzzled that there was a 'rule' about 'I and he' vs 'He and I.' Clearly your mother brought you up to speak well as a matter of course. As a former English instructor, I wish there were more mothers like yours.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeldeParis

No, they are not. They are two different verbs, so they are grammatically different, and they are two different registers - 'would like' being more polite/formal than 'want' in this context.

They aim at the same end: getting a beer. But that does not make them the same, any more than a sword and a pistol are the same if they aim at the same end of killing an enemy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KKFusionKaran

Imagine this scenario where you are at the table with a group of people and you are speaking to the waiter who is taking your order.

So the order to the waiter could go like this :-

The lady in the red dress wants a Tequila Pop and a Marigrita. The lady in the black dress wants a Pina Colada and the guy with a bow tie wants a Martini Dry. These three ladies want a stout. This dude wants a whiskey. He and I want a beer.

It is more polite to put the ladies' request first, then the men's and lastly oneself's.

Ok, now the fun part is to make that request in Italian! Hehee


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trout9age

surely "he and I would like" is the polite way of saying "he and I want"???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clive112700

For the record, if someone would like something it means they want it. They are just being polite and asking for it, not demanding it. To want something implies that one feels one has a "right" to it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FranklinPa666142

Ok, so I got that Italians really say "io e lui" not "lui ed io", and when to use "ed" over "e", but would I still use "vogliamo" (1st person sing.) in both cases? I know we would in Latin, but I want to be sure. Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jenni475577

Why not "He and I would like a beer"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

too polite. ("Lui ed io vorremmo una birra." = "Me and him would like a beer.")


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeldeParis

'Me and him would like a beer' is incorrect in English, because you would never say 'Me would like a beer' or 'Him would like a beer,'unless you were perhaps 3 years old and still learning the language. You have to use the same pronouns you would use with a single subject: 'I would like a beer.' 'He would like a beer' = 'I and he would like a beer', or, to be polite, 'He and I would like a beer.'

'Me and him' or 'him and me' as a subject is like fingernails on the blackboard - and a definite sign that the speaker is low-class and/or very poorly educated.

If you want a job as a garbage collector, say 'Him and me want to collect garbage.' If you want a job that uses your brain, not your back, say 'He and I want to work in your office.'

Many non-native speakers of English read these forums, and it's better not to tell them that something is OK or natural in English when in fact, it's incorrect, non-standard, or indicative of a class of speaker they may not wish to be associated with. (A Russian doctor does not want to sound like a street cleaner from the Bronx when he speaks English, for example.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

I think you overstate your case. This is the comment section (where people are presumably allowed to express their own opinion) of a course for Italian not English. Not everybody wants to be a strict grammarian. There's nothing wrong with being a garbage collector. Having an officejob isn't the highest level of awakening. Speak however you like, but don't presume I want to speak that way. Hugs & Kisses

PS, here is an excerpt from Merriam-Webster: (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/me) me or i? Me is used in many constructions where strict grammarians prescribe I. This usage is not so much ungrammatical as indicative of the shrinking range of the nominative form: me began to replace I sometime around the 16th century largely because of the pressure of word order. I is now chiefly used as the subject of an immediately following verb. Me occurs in every other position: absolutely who, me? , emphatically me too , and after prepositions, conjunctions, and verbs, including be. come with me you're as big as me it's me Almost all usage books recognize the legitimacy of me in these positions, especially in speech; some recommend I in formal and especially written contexts after be and after as and than when the first term of the comparison is the subject of a verb.

Here's one the disjunctive nature of the English pronoun: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disjunctive_pronoun)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

I thank you so much for your kind reply, that leaves me with more questions than before. My curiosity about the pressure of the words order remains intact, but now you introduce another topic: why to learn another language. What the linkage with a personal point of views about your language? And why should I forget my language if I try to learn well a language that is not mine? I think that the language (which is not a dialect, an everyday speech, a jargon) is something that does not belong to us, because inside it there is the story of our country, the beauty of our poets and writers, the way to express, clearly and possibly without ambiguities, what we mean to say. In DL, for instance, I detest the continuous, exclusive usage of "lui/loro" where "egli/essi" should be used. It's a sloppy system of speaking, it's a way to say to the foreign learner:"Too difficult to teach you the differences: come on! They (we) will understand you anyway". Of course, you are not obliged to write reports, editorial, etc: I would like to know the reactions of your "supervisors". What you call avoidance, often, is due simply to the not-knowledge of the reasons for which persons (more expert than you) have chosen a form instead of another. Often "the updated language" is only an easier, also if ugly, language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

Interesting. But I would like to ask you: "Did you send your children to school? There, they should have learned what the (strict or large) "grammarians" say, shouldn't they? And why this effort and these expenses when one way or the other is admitted and both receive the benediction of the Merriam-Webster, "American company that publishes reference books"? (By the way, I didn't know that the word order has a pressure, but this surely depends on my poor knowledge of your language). Your reply would be greatly appreciated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

I suppose it's a cultural issue. English has its own poetry like any language. Are we all to speak the same? Why bother learning Italian? Maybe we should all just speak English? Should the Italians forget Italian? Perhaps your language has irregularities. Does somebody try to pressure, guilt, trick you out of using them? Children should to learn not to take everything at face value and how to apply what they learn critically. The strict grammarian has three tools in their tool box: reason, passion and avoidance. Their reason sometimes fails. I have my own passion. And avoidance. Avoidance leaves an incomplete education. And who is hurt the most, the non native learner. The strict grammarian's very own posterchild. Is the non native English learner taught which subject to use "she and she", "her and she" or "she and her" No, because the answer is the unmentionable "she and her". We'll teach them the answer is "they". Avoidance!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

I completely agree, because there are two manners to speak a language: a good one and a bad one. "To be equally understood" or "it could be said" are not good reasons to give poor examples in teaching languages, and we can only thank mother language people that spend their time to help us and also fellow countrymen that, for misfortune, poverty or (let me add it!) for scarce willpower didn't have or didn't follow their teachers at school, teachers paid with the money of all the community. Unfortunately today everything must be easy and, possibly, free. But in my old language, Latin, they said "Nihil ab nihilo": nothing comes from nothing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

You're a native Latin speaker?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

Well, in fact, I'm almost 3000 years old.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Huy.B

Why don't you use 'vogliono'? It's third person right? Is it because of the 'I'? And if that is the case, is 'He and Jacob' the third person?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

Yes, it's because of the "Lui et moi" Because of the "moi" That would make it the first person plural. Vogliamo. "Jacob et lui" would be third person plural. Vogliono.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Huy.B

Do you mean io instead of moi? And is it true that it actually should be 'Io e Lui' instead of 'Lui ed io'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

Hadn't heard that rumor. Don't know (look an English sentence without and explicit subject!). If duo uses "lui ed io", I should imagine it's correct. But that doesn't mean "io e lui" isn't correct. Did you try "io e lui" and they marked it wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

"Io e lui" it's the normal way to say, less polite or not it could be (but we don't use the capital for "io"...)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Huy.B

Native speakers in this comment section said it, I haven't tried it myself yet.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

I take what I read in here with a grain of salt. Everybody seems to have their agenda. Namely they want you to talk the way they do. Not me. I mean I advocate, but after that it's up to you. I must have some other agenda.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

You could say he and she "vogliono", as vogliono is related to the e3rd pl.person. He and I = we second plural person is vogliamo


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iammalicool

I would like one too


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Laurie649181

This is the first time I've seen the word ed!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tracie279235

I got the "write what you hear" lesson. I listened in the slow mode several times and finally put "vera" because it didn't sound at all like a "b" to me. Even after seeing the answer (which had occurred to me, but I dismissed it, because "v" is what I kept hearing), I can't hear "birra." I'll go with it, though. I checked here to see if anyone else had that issue with listening, but looks like I'm the only one out on that limb. So must be my hearing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Natalia450114

I also see "ed" for first time.. Please, guys, explaine me why "ed" instead "e"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FiT4do

Horrible use of English!!! He and I want a beer seems so unnatural and awkward.. we would probably say 'we both want a beer' or 'Mike and I want a beer'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VikkiYE02

This is not what we would say in English!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaDonna2020

Why do "he and I" want ONE beer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joanna62344

I translated vogliamo as "would like" and it was considered wrong. I thought it was more polite to write "would like."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rob341852

I put "He and I would like a beer" and it was marked incorrect. IN the UK, 'want' is considered brusque and slightly boorish, maybe in the USA 'wanna' is normal?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FiT4do

I am UK English speaker and agree that 'want' is a bit crude if you are asking for something. Interestingly I was thinking about it and realised it's different if you are giving or offering something to a close friend or a child it seems perfectly reasonable to ask 'Do you want a cup of tea, do you want a beer, do you want some chocolate'. It is more formal and respectful to ask 'would you like' so we would probably say "Would you like...beer/chocolate/cup of tea?".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LaureErics

Why not "he and me"?...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sandrodbr

Its so fast i cant speak it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HarAnand

i said he and i want SOME beer and it wasn't accepted. Seems like it should


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

No, if it was some beer it would not have been 'una' but something like qualche birra


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HarAnand

but in english that's the phrase you use. you say i want A beer or SOME beer, unless you are really making a point to just have ONE beer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RoinujNosde

I'm having a hard time to pronounce "birra"... :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

I got told you try to bounce off the double consonants. So you say the r at the end of the first syllable and then the second as the first of the next syllable. I have no idea if this makes any sense to you but I find thinking of the word a bit like a trampoline you're bouncing off of at the double consonant works for me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TDesConway1

Wouldn't this be a bit inappropriate for children? I mean the laws in Italy say you can have beer as like a celebration. If a kid said that they might actually get a beer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gwnjzP0F

'he and I want a beer' is the same as 'he and I would like a beer' So why is the second not correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Because that would be the conditional, vorremmo https://www.thoughtco.com/conjugate-the-verb-volere-in-italian-4052436 for full conjugation of this verb.

And I want is not the same as I would like. There's a different sort of level of politeness. Certainly when I was young if I said 'I want' to my mother rather than 'I would like' I would get a very different response.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SunnyParekh

Why not "Him and I want a beer"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Would you say 'Him want a beer'? Or 'He wants a beer'?

It's the same reason you use 'and I' and not 'and me' because 'me wants a beer' is not good grammar.

In the end it's want rather than wants a beer because now that there is both he and and I there are now two of us and you'd use the conjugation that goes with we. We want a beer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Trutzenstein

Tx for your info, i considered "He and me..." is more the colloquial form and not grammatically poor


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NeldeParis

Unless you're being facetious, because HE wants A beer and I want A beer, so we both want A beer, each.

One could say - in English, anyway - 'He and I want beers.' It would be more likely in the context of placing several orders: 'They will have whiskeys, she wants a gin, and he and I would like beers.' The listener would understand that each person wants one drink of the type named.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Presumably they like beer. Or want to look cool in front of their friends.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/voododoll

only one for both?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

The 'each' is implied both in the Italian and the English. I want a beer, we want a beer, He and I want a beer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/voododoll

i was attempting a joke, one beer for two people


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikFish2882

I consider "He and I want a beer" in English to be bad English unless it refers to one beer for both. I never learned that "each" could be implied and I personally think it sounds wrong - in English. But this is about Italian, so never mind.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MennaRaafa9

I think in English beer is uncountable that it should not have an article. As I've translated "una birra" to "beer" not a beer. I mean it is not a good translation to make it countable with an article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

No, 'a beer' is standard English, both in the US and the UK. It refers to a glass of beer, which is countable and therefore has an article.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kai32232

i put we would like a beer and it said it was wrong...... im fluent in Italian trying to get better at spelling


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

We is 'noi' not Lui ed io. And isn't would like vorremmo?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/agronomo75

What' wrong with "He and io we want a beer"????.

This is a correct phrase in english. !!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kimberlytylr

I am guessing because there is no word for 'we' in the original sentence? I know that the verb already implies the pronoun and 'noi' is not needed with 'vogliamo,' but in this case since the 'lui ed io' are already specifically included, the 'noi' would have to be, too, to be part of the English translation I would think.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

As kimberlytylr has explained it is because that is not what the Italian phrase was - He and I, we want a beer, would be Lui ed io, noi vogliamo una birra


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tony.rodgers

"Want" in English is not polite. "Would like" is polite, and also correct!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

'we would like' is 'vorremmo' since that is how the conditional is conjugated.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tony.rodgers

Thank you for the correction and explanation. Grazie mille!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SueWaller

This is a very clumsy sentence in English - we would say "we both want a beer"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gliterati

"He and Me" not correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Not correct, for the reasons explained in an earlier comment. "me wants a beer" is not good grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

'Me and him' is sometimes heard but it is bad grammar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyler_Norman

That is not good English because it mixes the object form 'him' with the subject form 'I'. The correct form is 'he and I' but colloquially you may hear 'me and him'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hud214

"Him" isn't always an object pronoun. A sentence like "That's him!" comes to mind.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/paulgg

I agree 'he and I would like a beer' seems an ideal synonym


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ariaflame

Similar, but not exactly the same. When you're being tested on the verb 'want' then that's the verb you need.

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