"Um café faria com que você se sentisse melhor?"

Translation:Would a coffee make you feel better?

July 30, 2013

39 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/Jones_Rick

The English translation makes no sense. The second "would" needs to be removed. Is the Portuguese sentence correct ?

June 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Davu

Of course, you're right. I'm sure the version without the second "would" is also accepted - isn't it? The rest of the discussion is about the Portuguese sentence and although the presence of "com" confused me, none of the native speakers have said there is anything wrong with it.

June 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Paulenrique

Yes, there is a hidden rule hehe but com here sounds better!

June 3, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/Johnny_Lingot

The second version is also accepted, yes.

May 17, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/ajpthree

yeah I just noticed that myself - I'm reporting it now, there's no way that second "would" is correct.

February 9, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Davu

I managed to translate this sentence correctly by simply ignoring "com que". What role do these two words play here?

July 30, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Paulenrique

ok... if "que" as omitted, it wouldn't be subjunctive (um café faria você se sentir melhor?). QUE makes it subjunctive (a tough part Portuguese vs English =/). now, as subjunctive, I do not know a certain rule... but with "fazer" it works better "com que"

July 30, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Davu

Thanks Paulo. This gets my "Portuguese quirk of the day" award.

July 30, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/r_i_l_e_y

quirk seconded

July 31, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/LouHls

There are some specific cases which the subjunctive is always used after a conjunction. I found this: http://erikspen.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/when-to-not-use-the-subjunctive/ . It shows the examples and gives some lists of conjunctions. I hope it helps! =)

August 21, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Davu

Thank you for your answer and link. The problem I had with this sentence was less with the subjunctive and more with understanding what "com" is doing there. Paulenrique explained that it sounded better with "com" than without, so I assumed this was idiomatic Portuguese that was difficult to explain to a foreigner like me.

I did find this page http://veja.abril.com.br/blog/sobre-palavras/consultorio/fazer-que-ou-fazer-com-que/ but its meaning is just beyond my poor Portuguese.

August 21, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/LouHls

Oh right, sorry. Yeah, you're right it's difficult to explain haha. I read the page you found but I don't really agree with it. I researched and I'll tell you what I think. Look, "quem faz, faz alguma coisa", the verb "faz" doesn't need the preposition "com". The correct form is "faz que" if "que" is a conjunction that links two sentences, two verbs. Maybe people say "faz com que" because it sounds better or it makes it looks more sofisticated but it is a mistake. As Paulenrique said, in this case "faz" works better with "com que" because we (brazilian people) are used to say it and it sounds natural, but technically it's not a correct sentence once it doesn't follow the rules and it's not an exception. I don't really know but I think the correct solution here would be "Um café faria que você se sentisse melhor?" even though it sounds weird in portuguese.

I just found this page, take a look at it: http://www.gramaticaonline.com.br/texto/1044/O_desemprego_faz_com_que_muitos_cidad%C3%A3os_vivam_na_mis%C3%A9ria

August 21, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Paulenrique

interesting link! It encourages people to avoid using "com que" in such context. I dont think that will happen so soon =) Or they should add an exception for this verb, as many things are currently accepted as correct by the widespread usage.

August 21, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/LouHls

agreed! ^^

August 21, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Davu

Thank you very much for taking the trouble to explain things. Your page was a lot easier to understand than the one I found. This seems to be a pattern established by use and if what Paulenrique says is true then that is not going to change soon despite what grammarians think.

Maybe one day I will get to the stage where I can appreciate how the sentence sounds with and without "com", until that time at least I know if I use simply "que" rather than "com que" I'm still correct even if my sentence sounds strange.

August 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Paulenrique

And you'll get at that level!! It seems like everybody learned something new for now... Isso faz com que nosso entendimento da língua aumente =)

August 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/Danmoller

If you had not put all those links there, I'd keep on thinking "com que" is the only correct form.

May 30, 2014

https://www.duolingo.com/LouHls

Never mind, Davu! You're welcome. It's good for us too, this way we learn and understand more our own language. So, if you need anything else, just ask; we'll be glad to help (if we can haha). Sim!!! Com certeza você chega lá! =)

August 22, 2013

https://www.duolingo.com/emeyr

Davu:

Quoting: "...fazer que está certo, mas não quer dizer exatamente a mesma coisa. A interpretação é a de que neste caso, o "fazer com que" enfatiza o esforço empregado pelo sujeito da ação."

May 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Davu

@antlane: Thank you. The argument seems to be that because it has a long history and because so many well respected writers use it, "fazer com que" is here to stay. :-)

April 17, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/emeyr

Davu: Que bom saber. Nothing is ever wrong - just "inadequado ao português padrão". Imagine limiting yourself to "português patrão" when the language is diglossic!

May 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/antlane

a leitura dessa página pode esclarecer muito: http://sualingua.com.br/2009/05/11/faz-com-que/

April 17, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/Luis_Domingos

Not to barge in on this discussion/argument, but saying "fazer" isn't used with any preposition because it's a transitive verb is wrong, just like this link shows: http://www.ciberduvidas.com/pergunta.php?id=15224

I'm not saying there isn't ground for not using "com que" here (I would, because that's the only form I know and that "fits" in my mind), but the argument that "o verbo fazer não tem preposição" is at least a little reductive.

May 18, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Danmoller

Ouch......Luis is so "full of reason" (as we say in Portuguese, totally right) that I seriously question the authority of that person talking in Davu's link......

Ok, I cannot assure the "com que" case though, but certainly that is not the right argument to refute it.

May 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/emeyr

It looks as if fazer com que is acceptable although it isn't "adequado ao português culto" according to the text. I can see that the inclusion of com gives more force to the action on the part of the subject.

Você está coberto da razão, Luís!

May 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/Luis_Domingos

Even the word "culto" as a classifier is more of a status symbol to separate you from "gente inculta que não português correto", and therefore more of a mark of elitism than actual concern for how the language truly works (you can notice the disdain in that man's voice over the implied backwardness of people who write "escrevido" instead of "escrito", and that sets the tone for what comes after).

There are a series of grammars that seem to accept both forms, and even explain the process with logical (i.e. non-judgmental or elitist) arguments - for example, Evanildo Bechara's Moderna Gramática Portuguesa:

Também se pode preceder de preposição uma oração subjetiva ou objetiva direta. Assim, por influência da construção fazer com alguém (= conseguir deste alguém) que viesse passamos a empregar fazer com que ao lado de fazer que em orações objetivas diretas do tipo:

“...fizeram (os cortesãos) com que se retirasse para Sintra...” [Alexandre Herculano], onde fazer significa “diligenciar e conseguir que uma coisa aconteça”.

May 19, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/nddelima

"...com enfatiza o esforço empregado pelo sujeito da ação..."

This reminds me of a hymn I heard in church:

"...Faz com que a guerra se acabe na terra e haja entre os homens a paz......"

I will surely not forget "com que" now... Thanks everyone for such informative posts! 3

May 18, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/joeTatt1

Earlier in the course we met fazer com que. It was translated as a sort of idiomatic expression meaning " it causes / leads to / makes". For example "The noise makes the birds angry = O barulho faz com que os pássaros fiquem nervosos.

February 1, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/sofa4ka

Why is the 'a' necessary here? "Would coffee make..." is correct in English but was rejected.

February 19, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/Mikajulia

se sentisse melhor não é traduzido corretamente com - felt better, instead of feel better?

February 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/emeyr

It's a suggestion in the form of a hypothetical question. "Would a coffee make you feel better?"

edit: "Feel" doesn't represent the present tense. It is the bare infinitive used after the causative verb "make".

February 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Mikajulia

I know. All I have asked is about the time of the verb. Can you explain why they used present tense instead of past tense?

February 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/Danmoller

It wouldn't make sense in English if it were past. In English, it's an infinitive verb. (And Portuguese can also take the infinitive here, if you don't add "que"):

  • Um café faria você sentir-se melhor? = Would a coffee make you feel better?

In this case, they match exactly:

  • Would make = faria (conditional/futuro do pretérito)
  • Sentir = feel (infinitive)

But when you add the conjunction "que" to this sentence, you must also use the subjunctive mood. And the tense that matches the "conditional (faria)" is the imperfect past.

In Portuguese, the "past imperfect subjunctive" is not necessarily "past", it's mostly the main tense for hypothetical ideas.

February 7, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/emeyr

This is a hypothetical present/future using a past form to express that. English does that too.

February 6, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/emeyr

If your question is about the English translation of "se sentisse melhor" to "feel better", "feel" is the "bare infinitive" (the infinitive without "to") used after the causative verb "make". It is not conjugated in a tense.

June 21, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/caydence626826

So I just want to confirm my very basic understanding of the many overwhelmingly informative comments below... It is not neccessary to use "com que" when you write this sentence - however when you use "fazer" + com que you essentially create more of a meaning such as " doing this causes / eventuates to this or that " ... It would be amazing if somebody could confirm if I am at all on the right track with this! Thankyou!!!

February 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/antlane

férias fazem você se sentir renovado. - Holidays make you feel refreshed. day to day structure. Férias fazem com que você se sinta renovado. - Holidays make you feel refreshed. - formal structure // uma noite bem dormida faz você acordar de bem com o mundo - a well-slept night makes you wake up well with the world - common structure; uma noite bem dormida faz com que você acorde de bem com o mundo. - A good night's sleep makes you wake up well with the world. Structure of written language. It's just a matter of choice. Written language always has a stronger meaning, of course. ( and please, you can improve the English sentences)

February 23, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/caydence626826

Thank you very much :)) Very informative! They are great sentences!

February 24, 2017
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