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"An bhfuil siad leis an gclub?"

Translation:Are they with the club?

January 18, 2015

21 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatHargan

Can this mean 'do they belong to the club'? I'm thinking of uses of 'le' such as 'is liomsa é' or 'tá leabhar leat agam'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

The EID and NEID offer the form An bhfuil siad ina mbaill den chlub? for asking if they belong to the club; le doesn’t seem to be used to express membership.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatHargan

Go raibh maith agat.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Daithi2820

Mar shampla. A spouse of a member might be in the group so would be with but not in the club.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

Would one pronounce "club" with a "u" as in English?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

What other "u" sound would you expect?. There's some variation in the examples on teanglann.ie but they're more on the "l" than the "u".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

I would expect the "u" in "put" rather than the "u" in "club".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Gregory743155

Trying to answer this question brings us into the territory of the great British-English pronunciation North/South divide. To the south of a line that can be drawn, there is a different vowel sound for the 'u' in "put" to the 'u' in 'club'. North of that linguistic divide, the 'u' vowel sounds the same in both of those words. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_high_back_vowels#Foot%E2%80%93strut_split)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

And which "u" do you hear in the examples on teanglann.ie?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

Not the one I expected, clearly. But I have a sense that I am annoying you for some reason, although I'm not sure why, so I will say no more. Go raibh maith agat!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/eoin583226

For what it's worth: to my ear there is a definite difference between the u in 'put' and in 'club' (in English). 'Put' has the same vowel sound as words like 'good' and 'look'. 'Club' shares a vowel sound with 'nut', 'bun' etc. I've only ever heard the Irish 'club' pronounced with the same vowel sound it has in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

I'm sorry - I'm confused, not annoyed. I'm just not sure that I can tell the difference between the "u" in "put" and the "u" in "club".

My guess is that club is a relatively recent loan word from English, so I would expect Irish speakers to pronounce it the same way in Irish as they do in English, but any differences in pronunciation would be differences of accent, and would work in both directions - a Connemara man might pronounce the word the same in English as in Irish, and so might a Dingle man, or a Dublin man, but they wouldn't all sound exactly the same.

A lot of words that have a "u" in them are either ua, ui or ú words. Words like culaith or cupán sound to me like they have the sort of u that I'd expect in club.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlmogL

I misread your tone, I am sorry. It's interesting, we seem to hear this differently and I suppose it's somehow because of our different linguistic backgrounds. To me the "u" in the English "put" sounds like in "guth" as in: http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/guth in the Ulster dialect. And the "u" in the English "club" sounds rather similar to the Irish one in the Connacht dialect.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarthGandalf

Does this club mean a mace (weapon), a night club, or a group of people? What does "with the club" mean?

I though the translation would be "in the club", which was wrong. "With the mace" also looks wrong because how many people could be with the same mace. "With the group of people" doesn't look natural either with the "club" word. I'm not a native English speaker though...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PatHargan

It means a club as in a sports club. 'With the club' is not a particularly common idiom in English, but I think in this case it means 'belonging to the club', since 'le' has this connotation in Irish and I can't make sense of it otherwise. Imagine a GAA party at a hotel where the club is running a bar tab, perhaps – one barman might ask another, 'Are they with the club?'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Le doesn’t have that membership connotation in Irish; it does have an accompaniment connotation, as Daithi2820 noted below.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DarthGandalf

Go raibh maith agat!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Drops_du_Jupiter

Oops, I got that it said "with the club," but my mind auto-corrected it to say "with the cult." I don't even watch King of the Hill, I only know it from the meme.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/McBean1970

The phrase, "Are they with the club?", is often used in the United States in reference to being a member of a Country Club or Social Society for so-called "elites". The use of "with" instead of "in" suggests that the people in question may or may not belong to the "elite" group, and in some cases can be construed as a negative or even retorical question.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Moira_the_Dragon

It doesn't have to be "elite" situation. I am a member of a kennel club, and no I am not rich. If I witnessed someone upset at our show I would say to them, "I'm with the club, how may I be of assistance? "

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