Indefinite pronouns like "ovunque, dovunque, qualunque or chiunque" always need the subjuntive or the future mood.
You can find other particular cases needing che subjuntive here http://www.italianlanguageguide.com/grammar/subjunctive/
Hi Wendy. Living in Italy (but not native!) the sentence "Lo faccio ovunque mi trovi" is a very currently,conceivable sentence. However, the translation in English astonished me not little: "I do it wherever I find myself/wherever you find me". Is this acceptable English?!? Telling "I do it wherever I am" (less literaly of course) is saying EXACTLY what the Italian sentence means. But at least talking in a more normal English... Please tell me what you think about it. Best wishes, Lu.
sometimes its better for DL to accept english literal translations like "i do it wherever i find myself" although it sounds weird, simply because most people learning italian do not speak english as a first language and are not always necessarily familiar with english idiomatic talk. and even for people who speak english very well sometimes they just can't make sense of the original italian phrase so they would resolve to translating it literally, on the other hand, i do believe that DL needs to mention alternate (better) translations like "i do it wherever i am" alongside the literal ones after one answers correctly so that he/she is no longer confused about the original meaning of the sentence ^^
Hi Em.I feel sorry that you don't agree with me completely. I am not English speaker but to me "wherever I find meself" feels like "ugly" English, really.If you say it is correct, sure, I have not the right to contest you. On contrary, I like very much your translation solution "I do it, wherever I happen to be" (much better than my "wherever I am"!). Thank you for talking! Cheers, Lu
Hi Lu. I do not disagree with you; an English speaker probably would say "wherever I am", in general. I'm glad you like "happen to be". I reported it as an option in the exercise.
But please understand, the subjunctive is a very strange concept to many English speakers. In a phrase like "wherever I am" the word "wherever" gives the implicit doubt or uncertainty which leads to the use of subjunctive in Italian. However, an English speaker without experience of other languages will have a hard time making the distinction, since we almost always use ordinary present-tense verbs. In earlier times we might have said "wherever I be", but that is not used much today. We find other ways to make the distinction.
Side note: even though "I find myself" is not common in English, an equivalent phrase is very common in German -- so the English phrase probably goes back a long way. It's not so much "ugly" English as "out of fashion".
I completely agree that you translation is muc more elegant. But we tend to forget that Duolingos primary goal is to teach is vocabulary and grammar. Choosing the more colloquial or elegant expression is probably the wisest to do in a real conversation, but as a rule fo thumb it's safe to say that Duo mostly accepts literal translations because they come really close to wha it actually wants to teach us.
I know Metlieb, but when a phrase in his literal form is too ugly, I sign it as correct answer because Duo wants it, but afterwards I am curious enough to want to know what the sentence can be in good speaking English. So I am very glad to have an alternative translation giving from a English native for instance. It is my love for harmony and languages that makes me behave like that. Thank you and cheers, Lu
I'm wondering why this requires the subjunctive. While I understand that "ovunque" demands subjunctive, I thought the subjunctive was only used when the subject pronouns differed (i.e., you cannot say: io voglio che io vada dal medico).
With indefinite pronouns is the difference in subject no longer necessary?
Interesting. Here's a comment about what happens when subject pronouns are identical. Quoting http://blogs.transparent.com/italian/using-the-subjunctive-in-italian:
"When both actions are carried out by the same subject (e.g. pensare and partire etc.) we use the preposition di instead of che, followed by the infinitive rather than the subjunctive, e.g.:
Giorgio pensa di partire domani = Giorgio thinks he’ll leave tomorrow
Temo di non riuscire ad arrivare in tempo per salutarti = I’m afraid I won’t be able to get there in time to say goodbye to you."
- though this suggests that the DL sentence should be 'Lo faccio ovunque mi trovare', which, not being the case, suggests that barra86's link is more relevant here and apparently applies even if the subject pronouns match.
Interesting post! Perhaps the exception in this case though is that the pronoun is 'ovunque' rather then 'che'. The prescription here seems it would only apply to cases where 'che' would have been used (which we must then change to 'di' if the subject is the same for both verbs)
I found this website that says: 'the CONGIUNTIVO is used only if the subjects of the two sentences are different; otherwise, the INFINITO is used'. Does this make the 'I do... I find myself' translation technically incorrect as the subject is the same?
since 'trovi' is the universal singular present subjunctive the answer is yes and no. it also can mean 'wherever I am (find myself)' or 'wherever he/she finds me'. since what you do is more dependent on you than someone else, it is more likely but not certainly to be 'wherever I find myself',
I had actually taken a few days off because I was getting extremely frustrated at the course designers' refusal to recognise that English achieves through periphrastic subjunctive expressions what Italian does with the subjunctive. This morning I started up again. The sentence was "Lo faccio ovunque mi trovi." So I automatically typed in "I do it wherever I may be". Of course it was marked wrong. Silly me. Back to translating Italian subjunctives with English indicatives which indicate certainty where the Italian subjunctives indicate uncertainty. Half the time the English mean something different from what the Italian sentences mean, but why bother?
Hi Jefer (JFR)! I'm not English native speaker, Jefer,but what kind of English is that: "I do it wherever I find myself ", even having 'available' a sentence less literal but expressing perfectly the sense of the Italian phrase. Lo faccio ovunque mi trovi = I do it wherever I am. Trovarsi in un luogo = essere in un luogo ( to be in a determinate place). It's an Italian idiom. So that ugly "wherever I find myself " should be deleted as English translation, as it is not good English, sounds too bad, too clumsy. WHO IS WITH ME??! Best wishes, Lu
Bravo, in vena di attacco, caro Ben? If I like red, do you are obliged to love red too? One. Two. A sentence, part of a poem has other feelings,other meanings, other functions,makes part of another world.. but please, what has a simple, practical Italian ordinary idiom to do with the respectable poem of M.Angelou? Did I make use of literal references? Did I critizise writers because accidentally for own personal or cultural reasons use that phrase?? Bravo, you're great and high cultured. But perhaps I am a bit too unveiled and simple for you. With ALL respect for literature, why don't you let me be meself? Most respectable and kind regards to you. (Parlo Inglese da solo 5 mesi,spero essermi espressa bene.) Lu
I guess you might want to pick fights only when you're sure you understand what you're attacking. We can continue this when we both speak one of our languages well enough to comprehend each other. For now, English is the only language in which I'd be able to have such a discussion – that's why I feel confident in defending some of its use as "not-ugly."
Hi Ben. Please, I don't want to "fight" especially now that we are almost in the Christmas atmosphere. I live and work in Italy sinds more than 30 years and I can assure you translating "ovunque mi trovi" in "wherever I happen to be" would be a very accurate choice to do for Duo. And about "wherever I find myself", you are right, in poetical context it is less ugly than I thought. But it sounds too sofisticated to use it here, even if it is the more literal solution. I appreciate your contribution(s) and to talk with you. A merry and sweet Christmas time !