I'm curious about the use of d'entre in this sentence. I don't see how it figures in the translation, "None of them is alive." Can anyone help me out here?
Entre also has the definition of 'among'. None among them is alive.
I wrote that and got it wrong, using among, and I even tried amongst...ugh!!!
Although some people insist that "none" is essentially a contraction of "not one" and therefore always singular (none/not one of them is alive), I would say that in general it can also be plural when quantifying a plural noun (none of them are alive). In fact I find "none of them is alive" to be rather awkward.
Both "is" and "are" are acceptable in English (but I agree that "is" sounds awkward). Does Duo accept both?
When looking it up, I kept finding this on-line:
Apparently, the SAT testing service considers none as a singular word only. However, according to Merriam Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, "Clearly none has been both singular and plural since Old English and still is. The notion that it is singular only is a myth of unknown origin that appears to have arisen in the 19th century. If in context it seems like a singular to you, use a singular verb; if it seems like a plural, use a plural verb. Both are acceptable beyond serious criticism" (p. 664).
But I couldn't actually find it written in the aforementioned dictionary (on-line).
If interested, I took that quote from this site: http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectverbagree.asp
Look at the second Note under Rule 9.
As for being accepted on Duo, I don't know which should be accepted. Aucun seems to be used generally in singular when it is a pronoun. http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/aucun
So, should both singular and plural in English be accepted if the French is specifically singular? I would think so, but the Duo gods might have a different opinion.
I'm no english major but as a native english speaker I would never say "none of them is alive".
I was a U.S. English major and always say "none is." Those learning English will want to know that vocabulary mavins will notice negatively a use of "none are". Right or wrong, that's a fact.
maybe true, but those of us who actually speak English (not study it as a second language) will say "None of them ARE alive".
You're right. I hear it all the time in Florida and everywhere else in the USA. But the usage culture is the same one in which one hears "Me and John are going to the store" and "Please pass the potatoes to Sally and I." I hear those standard construction all the time, too. I suppose that one finds the analogous situation in the francophone world. And the snobs therein probably make as big a deal of it as I have.
I'm a native English speaker who probably uses both (I've really never observed my propensity to use one or the other so I can't say for sure).
But in a formal setting I would definitely use the singular.
I would disagree. As a native English speaker not American I was taught none is singular. None are sounds very wrong to me.
In this case, the language mavens (not "mavins") are just wrong, and clinging to a false history of the language, to boot. Use it only as the singular if you like, but don't ridicule those who correctly use it as a plural by making false comparisons to common grammatical errors. Languages are not static, and we are all well-advised to accept that fact.
I think Duo accepts both in the English case. I didn't have a problem with this question, just felt like pointing that out in case someone like me comes to the discussion page wondering whether one or the other is more correct. I would be interested to know whether the plural is also used in French too.
For what it is worth, the example sentence at wiki:
"Aucun d’entre nous ne lira ce texte."
...sounds really wrong to me if you use "liront" instead of "lira".
I think so too. It seems like it is almost always singular in French, and so you would match the rest of the sentence to that. Whereas in English we can use it as a plural if we want - except if the subject is uncountable, like "none of the wheat is ready to harvest". Oh, languages!
I know I've seen this in a couple other sentences on Duolingo, but can someone remind me why it is "n'est" instead of simply "est"?
You might want to read this: http://french.about.com/od/grammar/a/pronouns_negative.htm
That's because the n'est (which is literally just ne and est together) makes it a negative
You're correct, but 'none' is only singular in formal English. In everyday English, we still use it as a plural.
"None are alive" is just plain bad grammar. Are we going to have to accept "Me and Him went......... just because you hear people say it.
i have a question. As a no-native speaker i could be wrong, but can i translate this sentence as "nobody of them is alive"?
No. Ignoring what Duo thinks is correct, to mean the same thing in English, we would say:
None of them is / are alive.
Not one of them is / are alive.
No-one is alive.
Nobody is alive.
I put this but it was marked incorrect. Should it be accepted as an answer?
Let's dissect this sentence. Let's say its a family of 3 in a car wreck. (imo) "None of them are alive" ( because there are 3 of them.) "None" gives the illusion of a group. I would never use "none" if there is only one person. I'd use He/she/it (animal of unknown gender or plant, or inanimate object) "none of the houses survived the fire" Actually, I don't think I'd use "none" if there's only two (I'd say "both") "Both of the cats died"
Can anyone explain why we can't write "Neither of them are alive."? I thought "entre" has the meaning of "among two objects". Thanks!
It's a very subtle point, but I would argue that "none of them survived" implies a reference to some specific event (i.e. "that was a terrible plague" "yeah, none of the animals survived (the plague)"). "None of them are alive" is a bit more general.
Why is the n' required? I would have thought that this sentence means "none of them are not alive", although it's missing "pas". what about "aucun d'entre eux n'est pas vivant"?