"Tá turtar ó chailín."

Translation:A girl wants a turtle.

3 years ago

15 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Alderzan

I'm having a hard time seeing the logic of this sentence. How does "Tá ... ó" mean wants?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SeaininMC

You'll see a number of other example sentences using this structure, but you might not recognize this as similar because it is using the preposition alone rather than a prepositional pronoun. Have you seen sentences like: Tá bia uaim (I want/need food), or Tá uisce uainn (We want/need water)? This is the same but it's using a noun object rather than a pronoun.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

Just colloquial. It's best to just memorize it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/zzxj
zzxj
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Is it specific to certain dialects?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

I don't think so. Certainly ag iarraidh is more common in Connemara, but you'll still hear the ó structure as well.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/katmaloo
katmaloo
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This is an interesting thread...I'm really struggling with pronunciation. Can anyone explain why I'm hearing an "sh" sound in the audience for turtar.....like "tushtor"? Thanks!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Greyman125
Greyman125
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I'm still having trouble distinguishing between 'turtar' and 'turtair' in the audio. Does anyone have a good technique?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
balbhan
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Well to start with you should probably bear in mind that Irish r is [ɾ], which it the same sound as the tt in the American pronunciation of "butter". To get the soft sound, you can put a slight hint of "y" afterwards, without actually releasing it as a consonant in its own right (hard to imagine I know!).

Try thinking of the "resting" position for the mouth: in English you close it when you've stopped speaking, while in Irish you leave it slightly open - for broad consonants, leave your mouth slack in a sort of soundless "uh"- like "turtara" (without vocalising the last "a"), while for slender make it tense as if you were going to say "turtairi", but without actually making a sound for the last "i".

General stuff about broad/slender: you almost certainly naturally soften consonants before "e" and "i" (they are "front" vowels, because of the part of the mouth they are said in). To make sure you don't do it for ae ao ui etc., insert a "w" beforehand, but without rounding your lips [ɰ] - gaeilge [ɡˠɰeːlʲɟə] is close to "gwehlgya", and póstaí [pˠoːsˠt̪ˠɰiː] is close to "poh-stwee". It's a full-on rounded "w" though after consonants pronounced with the lips (p, b, m), so buí [bˠwiː] is "bwee". Broad t, d, n and l are pressed against the teeth (think of how Irish people pronounce the "th" sound in English), while the slender equivalents are said in the "normal" place (for English!), along with the "y"-ness.

The broad/slender (or velarised/palatalized) distinction is also found in Russian, which has much better resources than Irish. There's an explanation (with recordings!) here: http://therusblog.com/2012/02/18/palatalization-in-russian/ and some links to diagrams of what you should do with your tongue here: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-hard-and-soft-consonants-in-Russian

I tried to answer your question clearly and correctly, so I do apologise if this seems overwhelming!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Solvind
Solvind
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I didn't understand that sentence. It sounded like Tá tairster ó chailin to me...

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DominicCol12

Not a doll or a box of chocolates !.A turtle ! This must be Alice in Wonderland !

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Heather-ita

Can someone help me understand in this instance why the "h" is in cailin? I am having a hard time in general knowing when to add it. Lenition is confusing to me, and I'm afraid I'm just memorizing on a case by case basis much like a child would. Which I suppose would be great if I grew up where Grandpa did in Cork instead of Texas... Also, I think of this construction as "The turtle is wanted by the girl." Is that why the object is first rather than second?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/balbhan
balbhan
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It's a similar construction to tá gúna agam - instead of a verb, ó is used (it's literally "from", "out of"). But that's covered in the above thread.

I'd recommend doing the mutations skill over and over again, so it becomes natural. For me, knowing the history of Irish phonology gives a "feel" for them, but there's no sure way of predicting it.

Basically in Early Irish, consonants lenited after vowels so b > bh, c > ch etc. like in Spanish. Prepositions that ended in a vowel had the same effect on consonants at the beginning of the next word, If they ended in a nasal consonant, the beginning of the next word was eclipsed.

If you want, you can remember that i was historically "in" (nasal "n" eclipses) and ó was "avi" (vowel "i" lenites), and get some idea of of the flow. http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/sindos.htm

Wikipedia has a good example sentence contrasting Proto-Celtic and Scottish Gaelic, which also holds for Irish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenition#Synchronic

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ShaneStova

Wow learned some bookmarked allot and got confused first time I've been mage to feel stupid in a long time

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Shiranaya

... the end.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DominicCol12

Makes a change from chocolate then !!!

1 year ago
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