"I would die for you."

Translation:Eu morreria por você.

8/9/2013, 12:49:25 PM

8 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Davu
  • 25
  • 25

I need a grammar lesson. What kind of pronoun is you in the English sentence and what kind of pronoun is você in the Portuguese sentence? (I only think I know, so I need a second opinion from someone with more knowledge.)

8/9/2013, 12:49:25 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Paulenrique
Mod
  • 25
  • 25
  • 25
  • 25
  • 24
  • 11
  • 8

When the pronoun receives the action (it is most of the time after a verb or preposition) it is called "object pronoun (pronome objeto)

8/9/2013, 2:23:51 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Davu
  • 25
  • 25

Thanks Paulo. In English, to die is a verb that doesn't take a direct object. In the English sentence you is an indirect object pronoun I suppose (I'm a native speaker so English grammar is a mystery to me) :-).

In Portuguese, I was even more confused because você is not an object pronoun (neither direct nor indirect) and I asked myself what if the sentence was "I would die for her", which is obviously "Eu morreria por ela" (I thought), but ela is not an object pronoun either. I then discovered things called prepositional pronouns and ela is one (ti is another and it seems "Eu morreria por ti" is an accepted answer). The problem is that você is not on my list of prepositional pronouns so the question remains, what kind of pronoun is você here?

The only logical answer is that você is a prepositional pronoun and the list is wrong. Here is the one I was using: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Portuguese_pronouns (My guess is that this list is based on a very strict grammar because você isn't even mentioned as a subject pronoun!)

8/9/2013, 5:22:59 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Paulenrique
Mod
  • 25
  • 25
  • 25
  • 25
  • 24
  • 11
  • 8

Nice search man!! If you go back to the link again you'll find out that "você" is nowhere. When brazilian people are at school they learn: personal pronoun: eu, tu, ele, nós, vós, eles (I'll never forget them!) In schools we also don't learn that, as well as "a gente". These are informal ways and not taught in schools (the same happens to English. When you have english lessons at a language school they don't get off the beaten path - you learn what is the rule - no slangs, no daily conversation =/) Você is used as prepositional pronoun. More common.More useful. Break the language rules =))

8/9/2013, 5:36:48 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Davu
  • 25
  • 25

Thanks Paulo. You must have posted your reply while I was editing mine to say exactly what you have now confirmed.

Very interesting background, it is difficult to believe that você is not taught in schools. Actually você does appear in that list under the heading "Non-declining". I'm not a grammarian, didn't study Latin at school and the term is not defined on that page anyway so I'm still at a loss as to what that means.

So given what you've said, I can add você to the "Prepositional" and "Nominative (subject)" columns. Can I add it anywhere else? (If that's an easy question to answer.)

8/9/2013, 5:57:56 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Paulenrique
Mod
  • 25
  • 25
  • 25
  • 25
  • 24
  • 11
  • 8

Exactly.Add "você" to the first column and also prepositional as well as prepostional with "com" (in this case, com você). That's why sometimes it is hard to learn Portuguese by oneself through books only. They are likely to be outdated, unefficient, and strict!

8/9/2013, 6:06:55 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Davu
  • 25
  • 25

I did that Wikipedia page an injustice, it answers my question about você under the heading "Formas de tratamento". It says você can replace ti just as Paulo says.

There are other lists here: http://www.learningportuguese.co.uk/language/prepositional-pronouns.html (note, even though si appears with ti and você it can't replace them, because it is reflexive.) and in the Grammar section of this site: http://www.sonia-portuguese.com

8/9/2013, 7:44:43 PM

https://www.duolingo.com/Paulenrique
Mod
  • 25
  • 25
  • 25
  • 25
  • 24
  • 11
  • 8

ops, você and a gente is in the last column ;)

8/9/2013, 5:39:13 PM
Learn Portuguese in just 5 minutes a day. For free.