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"Hata an fhir."

Translation:The man's hat.

3 years ago

14 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/danoconnell55
danoconnell55
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This feels backwards to me. "fir" = "men" and "fear" = "man" but in this case "fhir" = "man" and "bhfear" = "men"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/IuileanMGabhann

Yup, in the first declension singular and plural forms simply get switched around in the genitive. Usually this simply involves slenderising the last consonant in the genitive singular and the nominative plural, occasionally the vowel changes as well (e.g. ‘fır’ from ‘fear’, ‘mıc’ from ‘mac’). There’s a reason for this too. The Proto-Celtic language had more pronounced case endings like Latin, which —depending on what vowel they contained— would ‘broaden’ or ‘slenderise’ the noun stem. The Irish forms ‘fear’ (nom. sg.), ‘fır’ (gen. sg.), ‘fır’ (nom. pl.), ‘fear’ (gen. pl.) are respective cognates of Latin ‘vır’, ‘vırí’, ‘vırí’, ‘vırórum’ (the slender vowels ‘ı’ and ‘e’ slenderised preceding consonants and sometimes triggered a vowel change, while other vowels caused the original ‘broad’ form to be retained). In Old Irish, almost all words lost their final syllable, so that all these endings were either largely reduced (mainly to -a and -e) or completely lost, leaving behind only broad and slender consonants (and occasional vowel changes in the stem) at the end of nouns to mark the cases. That’s why the distribution of forms does not always seem to make much sense.

The same dropping of the final syllable of most words in Old Irish is also why Irish has unpredictable initial mutations: in Proto-Celtic these mutations were caused by a letter at the end of a preceding word, now lost, that interacted in a predictable way with the following consonant (the ‘h’ and ‘n-’ sometimes added before vowels are remnants of these consonants).

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Em484950
Em484950
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The point-by-point comparison with Latin forms was very helpful indeed. Thank you for that.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RichardMik2

How would one say "a man's hat"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

hata fir

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/bryji

How would one say "the men's hat" then?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

hata na bhfear

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Radoslaw182
Radoslaw182
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I typed in The hat of the man. WROONG, why? ;)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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It’s not wrong, but “the man’s hat” is more colloquial in English.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lostcarpark

The audio sound to me like "hata a-nyer". Is that universal or a dialectal pronounciation? I know "fh" is silent, but i would have expected to pronounced it "hata an ir".

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Arthur339941

if one is not a native speaker, one's brain always interprets sounds within the phonemic framework of one's own language. Thus I very clearly hear this as "Hata an Yid" which I believe the Jews refer to as a kippah or a yarmulke.

11 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheCassifier

I'd like a site that does declensions for all nouns. Like where you enter a noun and it gets declented to each case like you'd see in Latin textbooks. BTW, how many declensions are there?

5 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL

There is an outline of the declension system for Irish here:
http://nualeargais.ie/foghlaim/nouns.php

You can confirm the declension of any noun at teanglann.ie:
http://www.teanglann.ie/en/gram/ainmfhocal

5 months ago