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  5. "Vivendo si impara."

"Vivendo si impara."

Translation:Live and learn.

February 23, 2015

43 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/silkwarrior

Can this be translated as "living, one learns"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IARose
  • 2216

You are absolutely right as "si impara" is the impersonal form of the verb imparare' so that the correct (literal) translation of the phrase would be "by living one learns". I reported it but I wouldn't hold my breath


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Christiane818741

Thanks, now I understand this structure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilmolleggi

yeah, but I guess they want you to learn the idiom.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kristinar65

if it is the idiom they want, they should accept "you live and learn" which means exaxtly the same but they don't


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ilmolleggi

Report it, they probably don't know it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

I think "You live" is too far away from the Italian "living" and is too obviously "Tu vivi". It's the whole phrase that being restated as an English idiom, not just the "living" part of it. Also, the idiom is "live and learn" not "You live and learn".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PATRICKPIZ1

you're being too literal. idioms, adages, mottoes are often ungrammatical in their originating languages. these aren't translations in the same sense as reading an English novel and translating it for an Italian readership. these are ideas which are the product of Italian culture and we are matching them to an English cultural idea as close as possible. the same ideas crop up in all cultures but the expressions are unique.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LotSparham

I agree, Patrick, and so entered the usual way of saying it in English: You live and learn. Owl didn't like it, though. Reported it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alexros83

Agree with you. "By living one can learn" I think is better translation. "Live and learn" is an exhortion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VamsVams

Still not accepted Sept 2021.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yatto2

you live and you learn...and then you forget


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/fekundulo

I wrote "learning by living". It got accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NastjaS3

Why is this not sta vivendo? I thougth that there must be verb stare before the second verb.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nullusaum

"Vivendo" is a gerund and can stand by itself. The literal translation of this sentence would be "Living, one learns".

"Sta vivendo, si impara", however, does not make any sense, it basically says "he/she is living, one learns".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IARose
  • 2216

Actually, vivendo is the gerund form of vivere, and in Italian when the gerund is used by itself- without stare - it often has " by" embedded in it. So in this case it would be: by living one learns, which I believe, makes perfect sense.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nullusaum

Interesting. Can you explain why "living" is a gerund and not a participle in this case? English is not my first language and its grammar sometimes illudes me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IARose
  • 2216

I slightly mislead you, as an ing ending to the verb can also denote the present participle, the use of which in English is slightly complicated. It can refer to a continuous action (I was passing); function as an adjective the grinning cat, or used in a participle clause when the action happens at the same time as the action in the principal clause. However I thought to keep things simple as in this case it is definitively used as a gerund: a form of verb that functions as a noun. For example: "asking questions is a good thing" . Or: "answering them can get you into trouble." Hope that helped. Certainly helped me


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nullusaum

Thanks. : ) I edited the original post, as "vivendo" is defintely a gerund in Italian.

Still not certain about the English, though. (The noun thing was what I used here and it works great on the examples you provided ("food is a good thing", "food can get you into trouble"), but not on the sentence at hand ("food, we learn"). I guess I have to do some more reading. : 7)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IARose
  • 2216

Food,we learn where did that come from? I must have missed something. Anyway in general it is Duolingo that is at a fault not you, as they confused the gerund ( noun) and the present participle (which in Italian too has a similar ending (ando endo) using it sometimes as the one (vivendo, si impara) and sometimes as the other (sto camminando ...) all under the banner of the module gerund


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeffrey855877

Interesting. I haven't studied the present participle yet, but was wondering how it might different from the gerund, and the "stand alone" part answers that question, at least in part. A participle is attached to something, acting either as an adjective or part of a compound verb, so it can't stand alone. At least, that's my take on it so far.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrucePlumb

A gerund is the noun form of the verb. e.g. "running" acts as a noun in: "Running is fun". In English the present participle "running" as in "I am running" happens to look the same. So often people (including DL) mistakenly call both a gerund. Be careful because the Italian gerundio is the English present participle. And often the English gerund is translated into the Italian infinitive. e.g. "Running is fun" = "Correre è divertente" Lots of confusion over this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/robina.connolly9

D'accordo. But then, I wonder why we have the gerund anyway, as "vivo" means I live, I am living. We could say " vivete e imparate" "vivo e imparo" "vive e impara" per esempio, non e' vero?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mprdo

Is this actually idiomatic? Screams for punctuation (in English, at least). Living if you learn is not the same as "vive ed impara" and "vivendo ed imparando" is not offered? Got lots of pillows 'round my head, so am ready to be assailed by you grammarians at loose. 09Apr16


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nullusaum

Don't confuse "si" and "se". The "si impara" part does not mean "if he learns", but "one learns" or "you learn".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mateusdl

I seem never to get it right when to use "se" or "si"...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nullusaum

"Si" is always a pronoun, "se" usually just means "if". However, there are exceptions that turn the pronoun "si" into "se" when there is another one right next to it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RainDer2112

Che bello frase!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrucePlumb

Most of the posts here are concerned about the possible English translations. There is no doubt that this is considered a standard proverb in English which can take various forms. e.g. Live and learn, You live and learn, or whatever. I want to know from a native Italian speaker if "Vivendo si impara" is the standard form of this proverb in Italian. Are there also some other standard forms?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alinacon

I also think that living one learns is nearer to the original


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sergio277189

Live and learn - is correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Richard754173

Agreed. Though many people have bastardized this idiom it is, quite simply, "Live and learn".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AssuntinaP3

In italiano la "s" si apostrofa perché la parola che segue inizia con la stessa vocale!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/WalterZAMB4

There's no gerand in 'live and learn'. Is there?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IARose
  • 2216

No there isn't. Vivendo, si impara or "living, one learns" is simply the Italian equivalent of the english aphorism "(you) live and learn" and is how you would express the notion when speaking Italian, rather than transliterate it into "vive and impara".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zimtladen

The English expression Live and learn is not really an imperative, as it might appear from the grammatical form; there is a suppressed subject, the (impersonal) 'you'/'one'. It's really an abbreviation for YOU live and learn, the implication being that you learn by living. That is, By living, one learns. And this is a literal translation of the Italian Vivendo si impara.

In other words: there IS a hidden (implicit) gerund tucked away in the meaning of the English after all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Richard754173

Can we not write this a "Vivendo s'impara"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/egregor1

living one learns still not accepted july 2021


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MariaAndro14

Why is "one lives and learns" marked wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zimtladen

The meaning is the same, but native English speakers are unlikely to say it. They (we) say "Live and learn". "One lives and learns" sounds like a foreigner speaking. Its not being idiomatic does not make it exactly wrong though.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/maureen428927

I put live and learn and it was marked as wrong even though this was shown as the correct answer. I almost put you live snd learn as this would have been more usual in English. Is this accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/twhisman

We would be more likely to say in conversational English "By living we learn," or "By living you learn. " Either of these should be accepted.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zimtladen

Not in my native speaker (UK) experience. "Live and learn" (or sometimes "You live and learn") is precisely the expression always used. I have never heard "By living we learn" or "By living you learn" in my life: the fact that they track the formal syntax of the Italian more closely does not make them decent translations.

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