https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais

Immersion: The Community Pilot: Seachtain na Gaeilge

dubhais
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I am aware that there have been requests for immersion in the forums; unfortunately, it is unlikely to be available for the Irish course in the foreseeable future. Nonetheless, if there is sufficient support from the community, it may be possible for a more limited form of immersion to exist as a purely forum-based entity. If this is successful and users would like the pilot to continue, let us know.

I believe that the Nuacht RTÉ website is a suitable source of content for this purpose, and I have selected the following article on the approaching fortnight of celebration of the Irish language known misleadingly as Seachtain na Gaeilge. Feel free to have a go at a translation of some or all of it, and help each other work it out. For more advanced users, can you spot any orthographical or grammatical errors in the text?

Seachtain na Gaeilge le seoladh den chéad uair i mBéal Feirste Dé hAoine 20 Feabhra 2015 17.25

Den chéad uair tosóidh Seachtain na Gaeilge i dTuaisceart Éireann. Cuirfear tús leis an tseachtain i gCultúrlann McAdam Ó Fiach nuair a sheoladh Aire Cultúir Stormont Carál Ní Chuilín an clár imeachtaí.

Cé gur 'seachtain' atá sa teideal, mairfidh an clár imeachtaí 17 lá ag críochnú Lá 'le Pádraig.

450 imeacht ar leith ar fud na hÉireann atá ar chlár Sheachtain na Gaeilge, agus is é Conradh na Gaeilge a eagraíonn.

Deir Uachtarán Chonradh na Gaeilge, Cóilín Ó Cearbhaill go bhfuil imeachtaí sa gclár imeachtaí le freastal ar gach duine, is cuma cén cumas atá acu sa teanga.

Tá tuileadh eolais faoi imeachtaí i ngach ceantar ar www.snag.ie agus ar Aip Sheachtain na Gaeilge a sheolfar an tseachtain seo chugainn.

http://www.rte.ie/news/nuacht/2015/0220/681741-seachtain-na-gaeilge-le-seoladh-i-mbeal-feirste/

3 years ago

43 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

I just wanted to say that I like this idea. I hope it really takes off! Good way to work around the lack of immersion and get people working with Irish.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
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I tried the first couple of sentences. You might also want to try a couple. I spelled out how I was thinking, this first time around.

For the equivalent of Duobot in Immersion I used Google Translate translate.google.com
I used Focloir for Looking up words http://www.focloir.ie/
I used Focloir "Advanced Search" for usage in sentences http://www.focloir.ie/en/search/adv
I used the web to look up facts. And, of course, Gramadach na Gaeilge.

Seachtain na Gaeilge le seoladh den chéad uair i mBéal Feirste
First Seachtain na Gaeilge Set to Launch in Belfast

Notes

  • Seachtain na Gaeilge [The Week of the Irish Language]
  • le seoladh [set to launch, verbal noun with le showing intention, necessity, purpose]
  • den chéad [the first]
  • uair [time]
  • i mBéal Feirste [in Belfast]
  • Google Translate [Irish Week first launched in Belfast]

Dé hAoine 20 Feabhra 2015 17.25
Friday, February 20, 2015, 5:25 pm

Den chéad uair tosóidh Seachtain na Gaeilge i dTuaisceart Éireann.
Seachtain na Gaeilge will be getting underway for the first time in Northern Ireland.

Notes

  • Den chéad uair [For the first time]
  • tosóidh [will start]
  • Seachtain na Gaeilge [The Week of the Irish Language]
  • i dTuaisceart Éireann [in Northern Ireland]
  • Google Translate [Week starts for the first time the Irish in Northern Ireland.]

Cuirfear tús leis an tseachtain i gCultúrlann McAdam Ó Fiach nuair a sheoladh Aire Cultúir Stormont Carál Ní Chuilín an clár imeachtaí.
The week will begin in Cultúrlann McAdam Ó Fiach when Stormont Culture Minister Carál Ní Chuilín launches the program of events.

Notes

  • Cuirfear [will]
  • tús [start]
  • leis [with]
  • Cultúrlann McAdam Ó Fiach [Name of a center that promotes the Irish language through music, poetry, exhibitions, workshops]
  • nuair a [when]
  • sheoladh [will launch]
  • Aire Cultúir [Culture Minister]
  • Stormont [Parliament Buildings in Belfast, located in the Stormont estates]
  • Carál Ní Chuilín [Carál Ní Chuilín]
  • an clár [the program]
  • imeachtaí [of events]
  • Google Translate [The week begins Cultúrlann McAdam Ó debt when sending Stormont Culture Minister Carál Ní Chuilín the program of events.]
3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

So. For le seoladh see here

And I think the first sentence should be: Seachtain na Gaeilge (what it's called, even in English) is going to be launched for the first time in Northern Ireland.

Also, tosóidh is the future tense.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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Syntax of the verbal noun expressing intention, purpose, necessity. Wow! That was worth the whole exercise! And future tense. Thank you. Thank you. I can't wait to try some more.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

The verbal noun is lots of fun. Lots of fun stuff to do with it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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Uh-oh! I just snapped up another sentence. :D Better grab yours before they are all gone!

Cé gur 'seachtain' atá sa teideal, mairfidh an clár imeachtaí 17 lá ag críochnú Lá 'le Pádraig.

Even though the title indicates a week, the program of events will actually run for 17 days, ending on St. Patrick's Day.

Notes

  • [While the ' week ' in the title , the program will last 17 ​​days ending events Patricks Day ] Google Translate

  • Cé gur 'seachtain'[while it is 'a week'] atá [that is] sa teideal [in the title], mairfidh [will last] an clár imeachtaí [the program of events] 17 lá [17 days] ag críochnú [completing] Lá 'le Pádraig.[St. Patrick's Day]

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

Ah, why not:

Deir Uachtarán Chonradh na Gaeilge, Cóilín Ó Cearbhaill go bhfuil imeachtaí sa gclár imeachtaí le freastal ar gach duine, is cuma cén cumas atá acu sa teanga.

"The president of Conradh na Gaeilge, Cóilín Ó Cearbhaill says that the events in the program are events to suit everyone, regardless of their ability in the language.

Notes:

  • Deir - present tense of abair.

  • Uachtarán - president

  • go bhfuil imeachtaí sa gclár - That the events in the program are (sa gclár is Connacht Irish).

  • imeachtaí le freastal ar - events to suit. le freastal is a use of the verbal noun expressing intention, purpose, or necessity.

  • gach duine - everyone

  • is cuma - it doesn't matter, or regardless as a better colloquial translation in this case

  • cumas atá acu - capability that is at them, or their ability

  • sa teanga - in the language.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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Yeehaw! Now we're rolling. The notes are amazingly helpful. I just restyled mine to match yours and scilling's.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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Yes, yes, yes! Learners at all levels really want to engage with the language. I wrote an Irish story once and got LOTS of corrections from the community. So helpful! This would be even better. Translation is restricted writing, so there's no fudging. Is there really much danger of a tsunami? Even if one comes rolling in, I think it would be exciting. As long a people are translating/commenting/correcting.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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Yes. I think I probably got the idea partly from the popularity of the story. In keeping with that theme, I wonder who will be the first to boldly go where no Duolingo Irish user has gone before...

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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heathermagoo, you talked me into it:

450 imeacht ar leith ar fud na hÉireann atá ar chlár Sheachtain na Gaeilge, agus is é Conradh na Gaeilge a eagraíonn.

“Four hundred fifty separate events throughout Ireland are on the programme of Seachtain na Gaeilge, organized by Conradh na Gaeilge.”

My notes:

  • There’s an invisible copula before 450.
  • I prefer to not begin a sentence with a number written as a sequence of digits.
  • Ar leith could be translated as “special” as well as “separate”; I chose “separate” to avoid any hint of hyperbole.
  • Ar fud, as a compound preposition, governs a genitive noun — in this case, na hÉireann. (Éire normally doesn’t take an article, but it does in the genitive.)
  • I added an article to my translation of ar chlár for the sake of idiomatic English.
  • I took a little translational license with the Conradh na Gaeilge clause to maintain the conciseness that is typically found in English language press releases.
3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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Great. I like the way everyone's making notes, which makes it an even better resource for learners. Historically, the Gaelic League might have been used for Conradh na Gaeilge, but, as you correctly state, in modern Ireland translations of state or other agencies such as this are virtually non-existent in the media.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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Hurrah! And the notes are extremely helpful. :D I just restyled mine to match you and galaxyrocker.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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Should a translation aim more towards literalness or more towards colloquiality? Should Irish language placenames be preserved in Irish in the translation, or should they be translated to English?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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A good translation should read well in the target language i.e. it should be idiomatic. It should also reflect the register of the original text; therefore, it would be bad practice to introduce colloquialisms into the translation of a formal document, even if they are equivalent in meaning. Literal translations have little role outside of academia, but they may help learners by illustrating the underlying structures e.g. agam Lit. at-me Idiom. have.

As with immersion, I'll let the community reach its own consensus, but hopefully, the forums will allow more discussion around translation principles than the immersion feature. The point is to learn and any engagement with the exercise is to be welcomed.

DISCLAIMER: Translations can be controversial, for proof see the Irish play of the same name.

Addendum: Placenames "in English" are usually transliterations rather than translations, and as such, I don't expect people to change them if they are not familiar with them. It's a complicated area, and I don't think it's worth worrying about. The community will help out if it can in this regard, I'm sure.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7
Usagiboy7
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Dubhais, would a weekly post work. Where once a week everyone can join that discussion and post a link to an article they would like to translate? I believe that would help ensure a lack of flooding in the forums.

Also, thank you for this post! :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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I think the risk of flooding is purely theoretical at present. I'm not convinced there is sufficient interest to sustain this beyond a few posts. If it becomes clear that there is more demand than expected, I agree that it would be prudent to intervene. Currently, the volume of posts is comparatively low on the Irish forums, reflecting the size of the community. I hoped it could be self-sustaining. I wonder what other users think.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7
Usagiboy7
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I'll cross my fingers that things pick up. If you don't feel like a weekly masterpost is needed right now then it's cool to disregard my post. ^_^

If you recall, the English general forum moved pretty slowly about a year and a half ago. It had a few peak times during the day, but then it would just sit for hours. More people will sign up for the Irish course and in 2 years It will probably be moving swiftly. :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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One advantage to a weekly masterpost is that it sustains momentum.

With Lingots for Stories, Criculann posts a topic each week and updates the list of checkers (and Criculann also checks German). You could say it's almost self-sustaining (Criculann probably wouldn't say that :D ). Contributors come and go. Languages ebb and flow. But that loose framework keeps the juggernaut moving forward.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JackVMacK
JackVMacKPlus
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This would have to begin when I don't have a functioning computer!

I look forward eagerly to making all kinds of instructive mistakes with this project once I have access to proper tabbed browsing again; at my current level of incompetence (vast), the inability to easily look things up on focloir.ie and GnaG would rapidly drive me bonkers.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/etonyan
etonyan
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I haven't finished the Irish tree (ha!ha!) and I don't know how to do the formatting. But I can wield Google Translate with the best of them and I can't stand to see one lone sentence left untranslated. I repeated "app" in the translation.

Tá tuileadh eolais faoi imeachtaí i ngach ceantar ar http://www.snag.ie agus ar Aip Sheachtain na Gaeilge a sheolfar an tseachtain seo chugainn.

There is further information about the events in every district at http://www.snag.ie
and at the app “Aip Sheachtain na Gaeilge” due to launch next week. http://snag.ie/aip-snag/

NOTES

tá is

tuileadh further

eolais information

faoi about

imeachtaí events

i ngach in every

ceantar district

ar at

http://www.snag.ie [the SnaG website]

agus and

ar at

Aip the app [ http://snag.ie/aip-snag/ ]

Sheachtain na Gaeilge Irish language week

a sheolfar ?due to launch

an tseachtain seo chugainn next week

Google translate [There is more information about events in each area and on AIP http://www.snag.ie Irish Week will be launched next week.]

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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Yay! It's perfectly clear without formatting.

But here's a Markdown cheatsheet if you're ever interested.
https://github.com/adam-p/markdown-here/wiki/Markdown-Cheatsheet

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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Well done, everyone. My thanks to all who contributed. That was the Irish immersion pilot in action. I like the innovative format (original, translation, notes) that has arisen. Let me know if you have any thoughts on moving forward. Also, the typo challenge still stands. The prize will be all the lingots this article has generated (currently 10) for the first correct report of any error in the original article. I've spotted two. Perhaps there are others. Cryptic clue: missing a letter is not necessarily more.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

Ah. It's supposed to be tuilleadh.

Is the other with Nuair a sheoladh? That's the past autonomous/VN, neither of which would really be acceptable there, I feel.nuair a sheolfaidh would be better.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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You are correct. I'm so pleased someone spotted them.

tuileadh (with one l) is a verb.

Nuair a sheolfaidh is the correct form in the standard that matches for tense and context. Sheolfas is also a good alternative (non-standard but widely used).

I think they are both just typos, perhaps even incorrect autocorrections, as they are words in their own right that are difficult to confuse with the intended forms.

Enjoy your prize.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

Yeah, I thought about sheolfas. You see it a lot in Connemara writing (At least in Ó Connaire).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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Comhghairdeas! The clue put folks on to "more", but nuair a sheolfaidh had to come from deep knowledge. Way to go!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kacord

Could it possibly be that tuileadh should be tuilleadh?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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Yes! I think it deserves a prize, though, as you were only minutes apart.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kacord

GRMMA :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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Comhghairdeas! Maith thú.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/kacord

Oops I didn't see galaxyocker's post.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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Now how to keep Irish Immersion going? That's the question.

Will someone post something every week to translate?

Or will someone post, calling for articles to translate?

Or is it a free-for-all where we just post articles to translate as the spirit moves us?

I would love anything that teaches me more about Ireland and more about Irish.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cait48
Cait48
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Do you all know that there's a Yahoo group that translates Irish novels? We read mostly YA novels or úrscéalta d'fhoghlaimeoirí fásta, but now we're translating both a YA novel, Hurlamaboc, and a book of short stories by Biddy Jenkinson, An tAthair Padraig Ó Duinín - Bleachtaire. The URL is https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/urscealta/info You can join the group, check out a list of books we've read, lurk, volunteer to translate a page when someone is busy, and then jump in at the start of the next book(s).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/heathermagoo
heathermagooPlus
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Thanks so much for that info. It sounds really interesting and just right for moving forward with translation!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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For bonus points, spot typos in the original text. I've just noticed one.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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  • Presumably sa gclár should be sa chlár ?

  • If the programme goes for 17 days until St Patrick’s Day, then wouldn’t it begin on the 28th rather than the 20th? (Either the starting day is a typo, or the programme length is a typo.) Or does it only run between Monday and Friday of each week?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

sa gclár is correct, though. even in the standard

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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It's a dialectal preference, but good suggestion. Galaxyrocker is correct. It's accepted under córas an uraithe (p22) http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/Final-Version.pdf

I think I just spotted another... The joys of the 24 hr news age...

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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I think the 20th is just the day the article appeared online: that might be clearer on the website. My reading of it is that it will last for the first 17 days of March ending on St Patrick's Day. The first one I spotted is quite minor.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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Thanks for pointing that out — I just noticed that the article’s title is in boldface above, while the article’s date isn’t. My eyesight doesn’t play well with Museo Sans Rounded, I guess.

Should i gCultúrlann … be sa gCultúrlann … ? That is, is an article required in this phrase in Irish as it would be in English?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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No worries. It's nicer to read on RTÉ.

That's an interesting point. If it were An Chultúrlann, then sa definitely. As it is Cultúrlann plus a definite noun (in this case no fewer than two names!), no article is needed, therefore i.

I see good coverage of this on Gramadach na Gaeilge, usage of the article, point 3. The article differs from English in a few other ways e.g. with honorifics like An Dr.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dubhais
dubhais
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See below for a clue.

3 years ago
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