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  5. "Sagan handlar om två igelkot…

"Sagan handlar om två igelkottar och en tvål."

Translation:The fairy tale is about two hedgehogs and a bar of soap.

March 5, 2015

95 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CsabaSndor

Does somebody know this tale?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/stephenbal4

This is the closest tale I could get (no soap): http://www.amazon.com/The-Tale-Anabelle-Hedgehog-Riverbank/dp/0745946771

And this is the closest product I could get (hedgehog soap): https://www.facebook.com/hedgehogsoap


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/torowan

Jag tycker om love Stephen Lawhead, and his many excellent books. But I think he knows more of celtic sagas than Swedish ones.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OmarDeSant

Sonic Adventure 2 had Sonic the Hedgehog and, for the first time in the franchise, Shadow the Hedgehog. Additionally, the shoes worn by Sonic in that game were from a brand called Soap. That's the closest thing I've found about this fairytale, which might be just a Sonic game.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I think that may be a liiittle too much headcanon, but I like the theory. :p


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

For works of fiction, "canon" is the term for the official version of events. For instance, the comics industry is infamous for publishing storylines that directly contradict each other, deciding later which ones are canon and which ones are not.

"headcanon" means something that is neither confirmed nor refuted by the canonical storyline, but which is still believed by someone to be correct within the realms of it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/S0S_90

I'd like to read this fairy tale...

In Germany there is a fairy tale called "der Hase und der Igel" that is about two hedgehogs and a rabbit. When I first read this sentence (not knowing the meaning of tval) I thought this was the story the sentence was refering to.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

A terribly late reply, but that fairy tale is called Haren och igelkotten in Swedish. It's not very common, but certainly not unheard of either. :)

Apparently it was first written down in Plattdeutsch in 1840; I should try to find the text and see how much it differs from modern Platt.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uxSY4nUr

Yes the Plattdeutsch version of 1840 was De Has un de Swinegel. There is a full text at http://maerchen-netzwerk.de/klassiker/dehasundeswinegel.htm but I don't know whether that is the "original" version.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Oh, thank you. :) It sounds a bit too modern to be an original version, but it's still a nice read.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uxSY4nUr

The 1855 edition Het Wettloopen tüschen den Haasen un den Swinegel up der Buxtehuder Heid' http://nbn-resolving.de/urn:nbn:de:hbz:061:2-1918 is word by word the same but differs in orthograpy.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Excellent digging! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uxSY4nUr

There is no soap in that fairy tale.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sgt.Burden

That seems like an unfair competition.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/unclematthegreat

Does sagan just apply to fairy tales, or does it also apply to a saga or epic?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

It's a fantasy story, but not necessarily a fairy tale. The epic the Lord of the Rings books and films are called Sagan om Ringen in Swedish, but they're definitely not fairy tales.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

I think fairytale and fantasy story are more or less interchangeable. Fairy tales may be more stories for younger audiences. So is it safe to say that saga is not age specific?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

saga in Swedish refers both to fairytales and Icelandic sagas and things like The Forsyte saga. There are more specific words like islänningasaga, folksaga, konstsaga and so on if you want to be more specific. (and long epic stories about families are more often called släktkrönika than saga, but saga is sometimes used too)

The most typical example of saga is a fairytale for children, but it can be used about a lot of other things too depending on context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

Oh, ok. Well, that seems to be the case then, yes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DuncanHill0

Mrs Tiggywinkle was a hedgehog who used soap.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dorianbtdp

Is there a sponge with the soap? That makes me think of a french ad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otY69wuY70g


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HansLovesIce

Could sagan in this case be translated to "fable"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

No, a fable is a fabel in Swedish.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HansLovesIce

Thanks for the comment, but isn't a saga on animals quite close to the definition of a fable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

A fable is actually basically a tale meant to enforce a moral. It very often has animals in it, but it's not a requirement.

Besides, "quite close" doesn't really work in linguistics, hence why you can't translate English "tiger" into Swedish lejon either. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HansLovesIce

So maybe the following statements are true:

  • There are several fables that are also saga. (traditionella berättelse om djur som ger en moralisk lärdom)

  • There are at least some fables that are not saga. (moderna fabler som är inte traditionell berättelse)

  • There are some saga on animals that are not fables (saga med djur som inte ger en moralisk lärdom)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Definitely. :) At least if you're talking about Swedish. An English "saga" isn't quite the same.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cinnamon_Sticks

could you say "some soap", or is it strictly "one soap" "a bar of soap"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zmrzlina

"Some soap" is "Lite tvål".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

The thing is that native English speakers don't really like a soap or one soap, they prefer to say things like a bar of soap and similar – it isn't really countable in English. In Swedish though, it's a normal word. en tvål, två tvålar, tre tvålar… :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Cinnamon_Sticks

This is really helpful, thanks :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LennartdeFraeisk

Is saying simply "soap" (since I learned that it is uncountable) accepted here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It is, though I'm not sure I think it should be...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Does this apply to soap that does not come in bars, such as liquid soap?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

I at least would probably prefer to call those en flaska handtvål, since it's more the packages that would be counted. I actually often buy several of these at once, as refills, and when I've brought those home I might say things like Jag har köpt fyra paket handtvål.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

Ah gotcha, so there you would use a secondary noun like in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alphabetjohn

I translated "handlar" as "has to do with" and it was rejected. Am I so far off?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

I think has to do with is a bit more vague than is about. With is about, they're really what the story is about. With has to do with, they might be just elements in it, or just be connected to it somehow.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alphabetjohn

Mycket tack för skillnaden.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mokvinna

Could you please elaborate some more on "handlar". I am confused. Does the verb have two meaning, "to shop" and "to be about"?

Also, a totally unrelated question: do you know of any dictionary that gives the phonemic transcription of Swedish words? I have trouble distinguishing long and short vowels and it would help me to see the correct written pronunciation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uxSY4nUr

Yes, the verb has these two meanings and more, see https://sv.wiktionary.org/wiki/handla


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Keith98606

What does this sentence refer to? The comment bubble says there are a whopping 44 comments so I imagine it's discussed at length there, but when I click on the bubble only two comments come up.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jarrettph

It's a bug on mobile. You'll have to view it in a web browser.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uxSY4nUr

And when you view it in a web browser, it loads lazily as you scroll down, so a search for some word within a discussion page may miss its target uless you have scrolled to the very bottom before starting the search


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JeanLibera1

I have been reading Pippi Långstrump in Swedish, and in that book, the teacher tries to teach Pippi the letter "i" using the word "igelkott".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

That's probably quite common, actually. I do that with my toddler.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

I was surprised at first to see the word "igelkott" being taught in this course, until I realized they are pretty common in Europe. We don't have any hedgehogs in the U.S. except as pets, imported from some other country, and they are not common even as pets.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uxSY4nUr

In Germany the hedgehog used to be so common that it lent its name to the chestnut calybium Kastanienigel (which is missing in de.wiktionary.org I wonder why, but it appears to have acquired another meaning as "a hedgehog made of chestnut"). Nowadays you sometimes see dead hedgehogs on motorways and, with a bit of luck, live ones in your garden on late summer evenings, and I have never heard of hedgehogs as pets before.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

Fun information! Thanks!
I looked up some pictures, and I see the difference in appearance between a European hedgehog and an African hedgehog. It appears that the ones people have as pets in the U.S. (not a common pet) are African Pygmy hedgehogs.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

I see why the Kastanienigel got nicknamed "chestnut." It really looks like one. :D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

I think the closest thing we have to a hedgehog here is a porcupine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/uxSY4nUr

thank you, toddler is a nice word I had not known before.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/random_c

I'm sure my dad once told a dirty joke with that setup...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bikush

I... am intrigued.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emily823504

Is this a real fairy tale? I am very curious.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antti22

What would a bedtime story be in Swedish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

godnattsaga is probably the best option.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Antti22

A direct translation from the Finnish "hyvänyönsatu", I see. Thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shirki
  • 1060

I've done this sentence many times before, but this time I wrote "porcupine" and was marked incorrect. Is that a separate animal from igelkottar?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Yes, they're not even in the same order - porcupines are rodents, and hedgehogs are eulipotyphlae.

The animal you'd typically mean by "porcupine" is called jordpiggsvin in Swedish - literally "earth spike swine". :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

This now goes in the same category with strawberries. I love it!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shirki
  • 1060

I had no idea! Tack så mycket!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AhmadBahrami

Finns det egentligen den här sagan i svenska?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kalisipas

I want to read this hedgehogs bath story, is it real?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/francesrainbow

Is there a real Swedish fairy tale about two hedgehogs and a bar of soap? I really hope so!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Nope, it's an entirely made-up sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vinnstrs

Is this a reference to something?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

As noted multiple times above: no.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GaryAxelson

Det här låter lite kinkigt för mig. Det måste vara en dusch också... ;-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Did you mean the English "kinky"? Because kinkig means "whiny" in the sense of e.g. overtired infants and toddlers. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GaryAxelson

Ja, det var vad jag menade. Så hur säger du "kinky" på svenska? :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Perhaps we're not naughty enough - Swedish lacks a really good equivalent. :) I actually think most Swedes would use the English word, with the English pronunciation and spelling.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/spike1239

Is this a reference to something, or am I destined to forever wonder what was the deal with the hedgehogs and a bar of soap?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It's just a random sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

What is a good definition in English of the Swedish word "saga"?

I don't think "fairtytale" is quite right because a fairytale is a specific genre of children's stories and it is expected to contain royalty, fairies or witches or magicians, peasants, romance, and a medieval European setting. This (fictional fiction) story about hedgehogs and soap would not qualify as a fairytale.

What kinds of stories does "saga" include?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

saga is actually a really good translation of "fairy tale". The genre is a little bit wider than your examples, and the AT(U) classification system contains plenty of fairy tales with animals in them. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rabdan3

Is this an actual fairy tale?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It's just a random sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LuisBussal

Is it just random, or is there really a swedish saga, which deals with two hedgehogs and a bar of soap?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

It's just a random sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/omeran1

Now I'm interested


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/key561740

Does this tale exist in Sweden? Sounds a little bit strange to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

No, it's just a random sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Michael22890

A bit difficult to fill in the "bar of". If I hadn't met the same sentence previously, I wouldn't have got this one. But I had, so I did :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/topkaugumm

Is there really a fairy tale about two hedgehogs and a bar of soap? I really want to hear it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

No, there is not.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kvegg

Shouldn't "tells of" be accepted as an equivalent of "tells about"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HaeinKim4

Så sött!! Så finns det någon som kan berätta för mig vilken titel av denna saga?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Well, no, it's not an actual fairy tale... :)

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