"Bhur n-arán."

Translation:Your bread.

March 18, 2015

27 Comments
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https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joel45404

She pronounces bhur totally different to as what im used to and its a nightmare. I had no idea what she was on about, i knew it was bread but what bread :P she was making a W sound on bhur, where I'd make a V sound


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/herredave

There are many languages in which "v" and "w" are allophones of the same phoneme. Similar to the "d" and "t" of the past tense marker in English. "Washed" [t] versus "waved" [d] or the "s" and "z" for plural "cats" [s] versus "cads" [z].


[deactivated user]

    Then you must have Munster Irish. In Connaught/Ulster Irish it seems it's pronounced with the W sound. You can listen to them here.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna646397

    Im from connaght and we always learned it bhur with a 'v' sound. But you might be right about the sound changing according to dialect, maybe Ulster?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lucabaduka

    I feel like y'all should be an acceptable answer for "bhur", since "your" doesn't properly express plurals.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cosmicstresshead

    Also "y'all" doesn't indicate possession, and "y'all's" might be stretching the English a bit far.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

    Apparently, some people use "y'all" as a singular address, and it doesn't necessarily indicate a plural "you", so it's essentially a plural with a singular aspect, whereas "you" is a singular with a plural aspect.

    sibh and bhur are never used for the singular "you/your".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NIC0.FERRAR0

    I dont understand at all the prefixes


    [deactivated user]

      bhur = your (plural) so when it's the plural form it causes the noun following it to have a prefix. When the noun starts with a vowel the prefix used is n with a hyphen, hence ár n-arán, bhur n-arán, a n-arán for our/your/their bread.

      When the noun starts with a consonant the prefix used depends on the consonant. Some examples: ár mbuachaillí, ár gcailíní, ár bhfeachtas, ár nglasraí, ár bpiobaire, ár dteanga.


      [deactivated user]

        It looks to me as if the quality of the prefix depends on the articulatory traits of the following consonant (the initialconsonant of the determined noun) whether it is labial, dental, velar, etc... What part of the mouth or tongue or lips is involved. Am I right?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ColeGabi24

        That helps a lot.. Thanks


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chaoshau

        Is it not Do arán


        [deactivated user]

          Bhur = your (plural).
          Do (your, singular) before a noun beginning with a vowel is combined with the noun like so: d'arán.


          https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RonanD89

          Are "bhur" and "do" interchangeable?


          [deactivated user]

            No.
            bhur = "your" (plural form) as in "your names, your house".
            do = "your" (singular form) as in "your name, your house".


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/_aoibhin15_

            It can be pretty confusing sometimes because in ireland for the plural of 'you' so like a group of people we say ye or in dublin they say yous so idk hahah


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isabellaneraidha

            Is Bhur n- arán is for avoid the double a? Since it's supposed to be Bhur (plural)...


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

            What double a? There is no double a.

            Plural possessive adlectives (ár, bhur and a) cause eclipsis if the first letter of the following word can be eclipsed. Vowels can't be eclipsed, so if the following word starts with a vowel, the word gets an n- prefix.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Isabellaneraidha

            Thank you for your answer. In my understanding the "n-" is corresponding in a way to the "na" with "bhur" just before. That's why I was talking about a double A. Because in this particular case it was before "arán". I'm struggling to understand "Bhur" in my language the plural possessive we add a "S" or "X" at the end of both words. Like in english in fact it will be "Yours breads".


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

            There is no na. If two people live in a house together, you would refer to that one, single house as "your house" in English, not "your houses", and you would say bhur dteach in Irish, not bhur dtithe.

            You would only say "your houses" and bhur dtithe if you were referring to multiple houses (either one house each or mutiple houses owned individually or together).

            But with a mass-noun like "bread", you don't usually refer to individual bread rolls (for example) or slices of bread as "breads". "Breads" in English is almost never used unless you are referring to multiple kinds of bread - "The bakery sells various different breads - Italian, rye, sourdough, wholegrain". It would be considered odd to use "breads" to refer to individual bread rolls that each diner at a table might get.

            Either way, you don't use a definite article, an or na or "the", with a possessive adjective, in Irish or in English, whether referring to a "mass noun" like "bread" or a countable noun like "house". It's "my bread" or m'arán, not "my the bread" or m'an arán.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan327866

            Why is a prefix needed for bhur n-arán but not bhur mairteoil


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

            The plural possessive adjectives cause eclipsis, or, for nouns that start with a vowel, an n- prefix.

            There is no eclipse for the letter m.


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Susan327866

            So that prefix is essentially a vowel eclipsis...not a new concept just a new application?

            Really wish we could get tips in the mobile app to explain that stuff. LOL


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vicki446293

            Why is there an n before aran?


            https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

            Because bhur is a plural possessive adjective, and plural possessive adjectives eclipse nouns that start with an eclipsable consonant, and cause an n- prefix for nouns that start with a vowel.

            https://www.duolingo.com/skill/ga/Possessives/tips-and-notes

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