"Bir elma"

Translation:An apple

March 23, 2015

104 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Apahegy

I thought Turkish had no articles. What is going on here?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/burak.duolingo

It doesn't. The "bir" is simply the number "1". "Bir elma" is "one apple", which you can also say as "an apple".

One thing to note about plurals in Turkish: When you add a number in front, the root does not take a plural suffix. So, unlike in English, where you would say "one apple, two apples, three apples, etc", in Turkish, you would say "one apple, two apple, three apple, etc" (notice the lack of the plural-making -s at the end. So you would say "bir elma, iki elma, üç elma, etc. HOWEVER, you CAN say "apples" by itself (without a number specifier). As in, "the apples on the table" (masadaki elmalar).

In terms of the suffixes for making plural forms, there are two possibilities: you can either use -ler or -lar.

What determines when it's -ler vs -lar? A little rule called "vowel harmony", which you'll pick up later. Basically, in order to avoid the vocal strain caused by constant ups and downs due to switching back and forth between different types of vowels, Turkish has grouped its eight vowels into two groups of four: Aa, Iı, Oo and Uu constitute the "hard vowels". Ee, İi, Öö, and Üü constitute the "soft vowels". In essence, vowel harmony dictates that hard vowels should only be used together and soft vowels should only be used together, and that these two vowel types should not mix together. So a word like "kimono" does not fit vowel harmony rules, because it mixes a hard vowel (o) with a soft vowel (i).

Vowel harmony extends into how word roots interact with their suffixes. Again, vowel harmony dictates that the vowels found in a suffix ought to be in the same vowel family (hard vs soft) as the last vowel of the root. So, for example, "masalar" (tables) is composed of the root "masa" (table) and the plural suffix -lar. The "a"s correspond to each other (i.e. both hard vowels), and the word thus fits the vowel harmony rules. Similarly, the word "eller" (hands) is composed of the root "el" (hand) and the plural suffix -ler. The "e"s correspond to each other (i.e. both soft vowels), and the word thus fits the vowel harmony rules.

So now that you know the basic rule, what would you append to the roots "tür" (kind/type), "kalem" * (pencil), "kitap" * (book), "yol" (road), "deniz" (sea), and "göl" (lake) to make them plural? You would say türler, kalemler, kitaplar, yollar, denizler, and göller, respectively.

*You'll notice that the roots "kalem" and "kitap" themselves do not fit into vowel harmony rules. This is because they are foreign language imports, and vowel harmony does not apply to the stem of loanwords. It does, however, apply to what suffixes may be appended to those stems, as we saw with kalemler and kitaplar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/art_of_ashes

Wow! This is like Hungarian: when you add a number in front, the root does not take a plural suffix + vowel harmony (affecting suffixes used for plural forms and with many other functions).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

Hungarian (with Finnish and Estonian) is a Finno-Ugrian language (very far from the Indo-european ones) that had a lot of contacts with the Turkish language. This explains the similarity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klaus650857

True, although Turkish belongs to a different family than either Finno-Ugric or Indo-European. There was a, now generally discredited, hypothesis grouping Turkish and related languages together as Ural-Altaic. There are indeed similarities between languages on either side, but the general view among experts today is that there is not enough evidence of a common linguistic origin, and that other factors, such as prolonged contact between languages are a more likely explanation for the similarities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ural%E2%80%93Altaic_languages?wprov=sfla1


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Klaus650857

Meant to write "...grouping Turkish and related languages together with Finno-Ugric as Ural-Altaic." I shouldn't write this long without proof-reading.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MahbubehPa

Also like persian


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janet_botanic

Yes, because hungarians are of Turkish origin.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/janet_botanic

Also estonians and fins


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/grekhovki

So cool and useful explanation! Thank you very much!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mido28mido

Thanks a lot you are amazing (:


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NestoEssmat

Really that's amazing explanation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JonathanJi82303

I don't know how long ago you wrote this comment, but it was very helpful. Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BabyBanshee

Thanks that was really helpful


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

thanks, but I wrote ONE apple and DL said: WRONG"!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Berto29441

...already done, thanks


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Kubra110760

One is also the same as 'an'. It depends what is the context.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

You can add the numeral "bir" to disambiguate. It isn't so much an article, as a number.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/karrman

Eat one apple: Bir/1 elma ye.

Eat an apple: [Bir] elma ye.

So this 'bir' is not just a number, but it's also an article in some cases.

'[]': optional.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Apahegy

I thought it was something like that. Thanks.


[deactivated user]

    I was wondering the same thing too. Maybe no definite articles.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JHWilliams1

    I like your username hehe


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Phebsxxx

    I am so confused with this and it is only the first lesson!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alurianas

    It's okay, probably because it's another language family. But you will find it easier by the day. Rules have almost no exception and it's like learning an easy programming language.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LANGUAGES-LOVER

    Thank you alurianas


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LANGUAGES-LOVER

    I know how you feel when I stared to learn Spanish.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MERVEREM5

    Türk olarak türkçe öğrenmek mükemmel bir olay herkes bunu yapmalı


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HudayfaTulu

    Yorumlara bakmaya geldim, çok iyi ya


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mondegreen12

    Is the "r" in "bir" voiced or voiceless?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alurianas

    R's at the end often voiced a little differently in everyday use. Not like in "raw" or " roof" but imagine a dog making the sound "rrrrrrr, woof!" Now take that "r" and use it for a moment. For a very short time. Voila! It almost sound like "ş" letter in Turkish. Alas, it is not necessary to give effort to that. It is something done out of necessity when speaking, given the sounds in Turkish language.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/karrman

    It's expected to be voiced in formal conversations. In informal conversations you can skip it. This way the word bir is heard as bi (like b in English).

    Also you can write down the word bir as bi' in informal writings.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vardariot

    That is certainly NOT a general rule for all Turkish words ending with an 'r'. So don't be misleaded. In spoken Turkish we do that for a few words but they do not have to end with an r. For example: -N'aber? (Proper written form is Ne haber? Meaning literally "what news", used when asking "what's up" to your buddy) -İyidir. Bu akşam bi' (informal spelling for "bir") filme gidiyoruz, geliyo' (in informal language the 'r' sound at the end of present continuous tense suffix -yor drops) musun? (Meaning: Fine. We are going to a movie this evening, are you coming?)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Winter_Maiden

    Interesting comparison with Irish, which has broad (a, o, u) and slender (i, e) vowels. And that 'r' sounds like Irish too! (Like athair, father.) Is the Turkish 'r' palatalized in the presence of soft vowels, to give it that soft purring sound?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LANGUAGES-LOVER

    I just stared to learn Turkish and Irish. I know that you are talking about


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/neio75

    so it always responds to the answer...how many apples..?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/v.ivanov

    No, they seem to have constructions like „kırmızı bir elma“ (a red apple) and similar. I would like to read a detailed comment on that myself.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alurianas

    It may, and it may used casually as a/an. "Bir elma al." Is a simple sentence for example "Have an apple." Bir is both number 1 and a/an.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DanaShawar

    Thank you you are amazing


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mohammad.a14

    Apples! Apples are learnt first in every language.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JahMahQ.

    I don't get when it's pronounced "bir" and when it's pronounced "bish". I just recognised that it sound different sometimes. Is that just my imagination or is there a rule?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YakinAlan

    It is always "bir", there is nothing like "bish". In colloquial when it is used as an indefinite article you may hear "bi" instead. The difference you recognized may be due to the difference between female and male accents. Woman tend to pronounce "r" softer, and vice-versa.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JahMahQ.

    Tamam! But I asked somebody and she told me it needs to be always pronounced "birsh" Now I'm confused... Don't get me wrong I'm just talking about the pronounciation! And I definitly here them say "bir" and sometimes they say "birsch" (Again, just the pronunciation!)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JahMahQ.

    Just like in hayir (pronounced hayish) ..you know..probably not a biggy anyway, but I thought there might be a rule or something..but now I guess there is none ;)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YakinAlan

    Turkish "r" is unique and has an intrinsic rustling sound in it. So it is not a separate "sh" or "j" sound but something along with it. You can listen to that song with subtitles, it is a good practice for Turkish "r".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkSLKsgv2e0


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JahMahQ.

    Tesekürler, agbey!!! ;) I haven't recognise the software pronunce the plural as "lersch" (-ler) ...I should listen to more Turkish music ! But still..it's wierd sometimes it's "-r" and sometimes it's more like "-rsch" ...guess it's like you said...unique..


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YakinAlan

    You are welcome :)...


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nTov9

    لماذا لا تكون الترجمه بالغه العربيه ليست الانجليزيه


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/saleh856294

    لان هذا لمتكلمي الإنجليزية


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ruqayyah493824

    انا بدي كمان باللغة العربية


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SunilSunil18

    There is no general rule for all Turkish words ending with r. Old don't be misleaded


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Patrick328825

    If you are confused by the grammar , just go on with the course, you will learn the language.. The majority of speaking people in the world don't even know grammar exists. Learn like a child with his/her mother , our mummy is DUO .(


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/emrahziro

    An apple , bir elma


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/qZDMMw7f

    Didn't record correctly


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fadi100094

    Ye elma Not Bir elma The voice is wrong


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mot412576

    I can't listen to its pronunciation


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nurgl656365

    Vay canına, kaç kişi türkçe öğreniyor böyle. Çok güzel yaa başarılar dilerim! Bende ingilizce öğreniyorum gerçi ya :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aras465693

    Kendi dillerini öğrenmek için gelenler?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/t4CM8

    كيف يعني


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RAMIRO772701

    I didn't read the instruction.. haha. I know at this point what it means


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/APPLE342356

    Turkish langue is hard


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nazeeha773208

    Who watches Resurrection Ertugrul and is doing this for fun???


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/nur505340

    Benim adım Ali Benim adı. ZÜLAL


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TulayA.

    Bir means "One." Not "An." ?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BiljanaPop

    I wrote an apple as my answer, and it was marked as wrong. Why?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JHWilliams1

    GG loooooooooool


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rami138564

    Bodyguard Bodyguard Independence Day Hindi Palya Independence Day what is this oh my goodness what is this your head is your head cancer commit suicide heavy exercise Haram what are you calling I am calling the police Toy Gun toy gun 222222222222 main main main main main mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm mmmhxjgdgchs Bhojpuri song Tarak mama mama doctor


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/E.T.s_Son

    Does Turkish attach gender to nouns?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

    It doesn't even attach gender to pronouns :)

    O is "he", "she", or "it", as well as "xe", "sie", "(singular) they", or whatever other third-person singular pronoun you can think of.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

    There is no grammatical gender in Turkish :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dragonrykr

    Remove health system from the appp!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Havva865176

    Guys its not wrong im turkish i tested it no problem there.

    Learn Turkish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.