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  5. "Birayı ayı içer."

"Birayı ayı içer."

Translation:The bear drinks the beer.

March 23, 2015

68 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/G0108

Why are the words placed the way they are? Could you also say "Ayı biraı içer"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

keep the verb at the end, the rest is often interchangeable for emphasis


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnastasiaStyIes

Maybe this could be added to the notes, then?

Otherwise people can easily think it's just another weird DL sentence that makes little semantic sense and has been placed in to check we're paying attention to grammar (which in this case, results in people opting for the silly "the beer drinks the bear", in accordance with what we were told about Turkish syntax being SOV).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

But it can't mean that, because the accusative suffix is on the beer, not on the bear.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yaciraa

Not exactly. Ayi ends on I. So, we can think that's accusative. We are starting :(


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eclectic1234

The accusative of "ayı" is "ayıyı."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shemsije4

Where can i find these 'notes' ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eclectic1234

The "tips" are available on the laptop/desktop version but not on the phone.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mich858400

This is not serious


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SeasteadsOptions

Login to the website in your phone's browser for the languages that don't have the notes built into the app.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Shemsije4

The (accusative) case in Turkish is used to mark specific direct objects.

A specific direct object is one that uses the article “the.”

For example:

Neyi açtı? - What did she open? Buzdolabını açtı - She opened the fridge.

Neyi özledi? - What did he miss? Okulu özledi. He missed school.

Yarın kimi arayacağım? - Who will I call tomorrow? Seni yarın arayacağım. - I will call you tomorrow.

Telefon (telephone) + "-u" (accusative suffix) Telefonu (the phone) - the last vowel was "o"

Çatal (fork) + "-ı" (accusative suffix) Çatalı (the fork) - the last vowel was "-a"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/G0108

I meant more the subject-object because the sentences are usually SOV but this time it was OSV?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

Yes, you cannot do this if the object is nominative, but if it is accusative (as here), dative, locative etc, it is very normal to place it before the subject pronoun to emphasize WHO is doing it.

For example, if you ask "Who drinks the beer?", it is weird to say "Ayı birayı içer"; the natural answer is "birayı ayı içer"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Wattsin

Anyone care to translate the jargon?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Turkmuggle

Do you mean SOV and OSV this is likely subject, object, verb


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/el_kousy

Can you give example for object in nominative case so we cant interchane the order


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/orde90

sov is the neutral form which means you don't put emphasis anywhere. however you may put the thing you want to stress on just before the verb and thus break the neutral form. in this sentence the stress is on the word 'ayı'.

you can also put other objects after the verb, which means you can do svo, ovs, vso or vos but in this case you make the things after verb 'very unimportant' and it's only preferred in informal speaking.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Leon5545

And the emphasis is on the word right before the Verb. SOV is neutral and OSV puts the emphasis on the Subject. It is the bear who drinks the beer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yaciraa

I don't get it. I mean. If you want to put emphasis... You put the word of the emphasis in second place??

Always?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

As I understand it, the way to emphasize an element other than the verb is put the verb last (as usual) and the element to emphasize right before the verb. That is, second-to-last place.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/upstean

yes! Ayı birayı içer can be acceptable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mehran3122

Exactly I think so


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChiBegam

There is a little problem, this question is so good. The point here is the more emphasis on "Ayi", right? But in the voice, the emphesis is on the " Birayi", so it makes everything a little weird. Becouse as in sentence emphesis is puted on "Ayi", but when we hear the sentence, emohesis is puted on "Birayi", but anyway it is a very good qyestion and example...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnUnicorn

So would 'a bear drinks the beer' be bir ayı birayı içer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

yes, but "bir" can be omitted

I guess you just wrote "bear" and the system suggested " a bear"; this is because you need an article in English


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JackyDW

I heard about this. Does this sentence read "The bear drinks the beer."?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Honema

I tried out "The beer id drunk by the bear" to see if that was correct and it wasn't, now is my question: Why not? Do you need another case in Turkish for this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OmegaGmaster

This requires passive voice, so I think to say "The beer is drunk by the bear" you would say something like "bira ayının tarafından içilir." I'm a non-native so someone please correct me on this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

"Birayı ayı içer." Translation: The bear drinks the beer.

The definite direct object can move anywhere before the verb. It is recognised by the accusative case suffix.

Birayı ayı içer. The bear drinks the beer. Correct.

Ayı birayı içer. The bear drinks the beer. Correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lizmichel19

This makes no sense at all, can someone explain this to me please?!!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Merhaba Lizmichel19

"Birayı ayı içer."

Translation: The bear drinks the beer.

Hello,

The English answer to the Turkish question is correct. The beer cannot drink the bear as it seems to be in the Turkish question? Bira - beer. Possible combinations (consonants + vowels) - yı. Bira is the (root) word - beer. The "y" is a buffer consonant after bira - biray & the dot-less "ı" is the determiner - "the beer" - birayı.

Back vowels: (a, ı, o & u) back vowels can only be followed by a back vowel. Example, uyanınca: uyan – wake up sleepy head, uyanın – wake up sleepy heads & uyanınca – awakened sleepy head/heads. All the vowels in the word uyanınca are back vowels. More examples: Kalkınca, soruyor, kırılsam, olmadın, olanları, kulum, kullarını & tanrım.

Teşekkürler. This is a (joke) Bears can't read beer labels but they know beer tastes nice.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lizmichel19

But why you cant say " ayı birayı icer" ? thats the part that i dont get in turkish why sometimes the subject goes to the middle part of the sentence...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Lizmichel19

Hello.

You can & you are correct.

The definite direct object can move anywhere before the verb. It is recognised by the accusative case suffix.

"Ayı birayı icer." Correct.

In Duo's example it happens to be in the subject position & is not the subject.

Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zahra112555

Can we use it for other sentences?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OrianaDaz

I translated the correct form in my mind but the place of the Turkish words confused me and I made it wrong. Sometimes the exercises confuse me. Next time, I'll be more logical ☺☺


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Niki392503

In one of the other sentences the elephant eats bread and ekmek was not in accusative form. Whereas the structure is the same as here (apart from the reversed order of the subject and the object that is special here). So how do we make a distinction on when to use the accusative or not?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Guochan_007

Personal view, you can place the word anywhere you wish it to be as long as it is attached with an accusative marker. Just like Russian.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MelisaB01

In every single one the subject comes first.. and with this one, all of a sudden its placed in front?


Examples:

Kedi sütü içer Köpek suyu içer Tavşan elmayi yer


And then out of nowhere, it says: Birayi ayı içer

Very confusing!! Why can't it be like the others in my examples?

Ayı birayi içer

Please explain without grammatical terms, just in simple words.

Teşekkurler :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanaLee63

Not that I'm complaining, BUT twice I've heard AND written "iyi" and it's been accepted. It's confusing...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sandra662745

Sorry I had a problem with the phone and wrote this


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaitreyeeC4

Would request Duolingo to teach the syntax (along with all possible forms) of a sentence properly before they test the language knowledge. So far we have been taught the the subject comes first. In that case how can 'birayi' be 'bear' the animal !?!?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alperayr1

Lan ne salak birşeysinsen the ekini ben koyunca olmuyor koymayıncada olmuyor gerizekalı dingil


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/xyz7hfhdi475gjc

So that's why he came back drunk


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hale531099

I can't understand whay the words placed like this


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hameed2020

Ayi bira icer...??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jamal313685

The translation is (the bear, bear drink)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zveniinex

Seems like the turkish bear is looking at the russian bear drink beer damn


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mirage20

Following discussion


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Geudrez

Why is the word correct? This is a technical error in the for sure, how do I not understand this


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Geudrez

Why is the word correct? This is a technical error in the application for sure, how do I not understand this


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

Hi, Geudrez. Is it the word order that's bothering you? True, the order is different than in the English version, but languages in which grammatical case is shown ("marked") through the way words are written (e.g., German, Turkish, ...) are often more flexible with word order than those in which it isn't. Here, we have

Birayı (Bira ("beer"), plus accusative suffix and -y- buffer)
ayı ("(the) bear")
içer ("drinks")

Have you read AlexinNotTurkey's post below ("Word order ultimately ...")?
Have you reviewed the TIPS for the Accusative skill?
Did you know you can delete your own posts?

Don't worry; Turkish offers us many interesting things to learn!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Vahid628635

The correct sentence is"Ayı birayi içer" I guess there us a mistake here.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

Hi, Vahid. I think Turkish has some flexibility in word order, so that both are OK. Accusative markers help to make this possible.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Hameed2020

The beer drinks the bear ❌❌❌


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SouBen9

Isn't "ayi birayı içer" the correct answer


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SouBen9

Isn't "ayi birayı içer" ???????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Hello SouBen9

Isn't "ayi birayı içer" ??????? Both Turkish questions are correct.

The definite direct object can move anywhere before the verb. It is recognised by the accusative case suffix.

"Birayı ayı içer." -> Correct.

"Ayı birayı içer." -> Correct.

Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ana205995

Why is wrong to say "The bear drinks beer"? In Turkish is accusative but in English you could say like that.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

It is wrong because there is a difference between saying "The bear drinks beer" and "The bear drinks the beer." In the first case, there's no great interest in which or what kind of beer the bear drinks; it's enough to know that it drinks beer, maybe as a habitual thing. In the second case, the speaker and listener(s) should know which or what beer is being referred to. Turkish does not have a word for "the," but it uses the accusative suffix to express the difference between "drinks beer" ("bira içer") and "drinks the beer" ("bira içer"). In the first case, "bira" is a "general" direct object, and in the second, "birayı" is a "definite" (specific, known) direct object. This distinction is what the Turkish accusative is all about.

Note that the Turkish accusative is also used in cases where English translations use words other than "the" to express the specificity: "He wants this sandwich" ("(O) bu sandviçi istiyor."), "I want that cat" ("(Ben) şu kediyi istiyorum").

Your efforts to master this topic will pay off : )
https://elon.io/learn-turkish/lesson/the-accusative-case-suffix
https://www.duolingo.com/skill/tr/Accusative/tips-and-notes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Hello Ana

Why is wrong to say "The bear drinks beer"? In Turkish is accusative but in English you could say like that.

Of course you can say that. Remember, "beer" becomes an indefinite, direct object & not accusative case suffixed.

The Bear drinks beer. -> Ayı bira içer.

Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amir379277

Are you confiuse?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EnglishBob

Could this theoretically be translated as 'the beer drinks the bear' in some very weird way?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

Selam, EnglishBob! Hayır. Then "the beer" would be the subject, and would be in the nominative, not the accusative, case: "Bira" instead of "Birayı." And "bear" would be the (definite) direct object, and thus require the accusative. "ayı" is the basic (nominative) form; the accusative would be "ayıyı," giving "Bira ayıyı içer" — something I would definitely not want to witness!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leilaattar2

The sentense is wrong


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

cümle: sentence

The bear ("ayı") drinks the beer ("birayı"). Of course it could also read "Ayı birayı içer." But languages that use case markers (such as Turkish, German) can be more flexible with word order than those that don't. Putting "ayı" right before the verb allows the sentence to emphasize that it's the bear who is drinking the beer — not such a common thing in my limited experience.

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