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  5. "Biz İstanbul'un dışında koşu…

"Biz İstanbul'un dışında koşuyoruz."

Translation:We are running outside of İstanbul.

March 24, 2015

36 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alan34152

Not sure, but I believe the Turkish here is making a distinction that cannot be easily made in English, and the answer key tries to (artificially) make this distinction by refusing the translation out of Istanbul and only accepting the (basically synonymous) outside of Istanbul. The locative case (dışında) names the place wherein you are running (that is, from one point outside of Istanbul to another point outside of Istanbul). The dative case (dışarı) shows movement toward a goal (that is, where you are running to, from one point INSIDE of Istanbul to another point OUTSIDE of Istanbul). Both of these meanings in English could be expressed with either I am running out / outside of Istanbul. Hence the confusion. English is not a translation of Turkish, nor is Turkish a translation of English. Learning language purely through translations always has its difficulties. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan841614

How is dışarı dative? The notes say dative has 2 way vowel harmony


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

Hello, Jan. I don't believe that "dışarı" by itself is in the dative.
From Google Translate, it can mean (adverb) "out" or (noun) "outside."
GT also gives us the expressions "dışarı çıkmak" and "dışarıya çıkmak," each basically meaning "to go out(side)." ("protrude" (i.e., "stick out") is also listed for "dışarı çıkmak.") Anyway, from the two expressions, we can see that the dative suffix does indeed use 2-way vowel harmony.

And if we want to tell someone to "Get out!" it seems that both "Dışarıya çık!" and "Dışarı çık!" are options. (I would guess the shorter one is preferred, as brevity is often more forceful.)

Finally, I now see that you are likely referring to Alan's post, in which he identifies "dışarı" as dative. Maybe it can be used in a way so that the dative suffix is "understood"? As GT shows, the actual -(y)a suffix can also be used.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jan841614

Thank you for the response! This is the hardest topic so far!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cVC9doiH

I'm running out of brain cells


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yman12

"We are runnig outside Istanbul" is not acceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/trivialstuff

"Outside Istanbul" is acceptable, even though Duolingo considers it a typo.

Actually, "outside of" is more common in American English than in British English, so "outside" alone is perfectly fine.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/9700/outside-or-outside-of


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aliNka

"We are running out of İstanbul" is not acceptable?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyNurington

"We are running out of Istanbul" would be translated as "Biz İstanbul'dan dışarı koşuyoruz." Which is an incorrect translation for the sentences above.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/earthtojeremiah

Would that sentence have a very distinct meaning from "Biz İstanbul'dan koşuyoruz"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MDSARFARAZ007

Can you please give a explaination?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

I think the important distinction, which is a little harder to express in English than in Turkish, is that there is no conceptual "crossing of borders" here; that is, the Turkish is not saying that we were in Istanbul when we began running, and then we kept running until we were outside of Istanbul. Instead, all of our running is happening (in the area) outside of Istanbul.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Duboglastos

My sense is that because disinda (I can't do the letters properly on my iPad) is a locative, it implies the place where an action occurs, and not the direction of the action. I could be wrong but I don't think your translation would be accurate. Your sentence would read 'Istanbuldan kosuyoruz'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tiez14

It means we are running from a. what is outside from İstanbul to b. what is also outside from Istanbul.

Out of Istanbul "İstanbul'dan koşuyoruz"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Quolh

The Voice does not speak the 'un syllable.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/miia_k

dışında, dışarısında. I don't understand their difference. So would it be wrong to say "Biz İstanbul'un dışarısında koşuyoruz"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Juli.Kaefer

I am also frequently wondering about a very similar question: What is the difference between arkanda and arkasında?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyNurington

Arkanda means "behind you" and arkasında means "behind her/him/it".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sradaninko

Dışında is more appropriate


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/redactedname77

What is the difference between İstanbul'un and İstanbul'da


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/aazadian

İstanbul'un is genetive and İstanbul'da is locative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tiez14

istanbul'un = istanbul's I stanbul'da =in istanbul istanbul'dan = from istanbul

disina = to outside disinda = at the outside disindan = from outside


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GordonRobb

Someone really needs to give me some help on when the continues is and isn't translated as a simple resent. I speak(know) turkish -Turkce biliyorum for example, so why is this one not be We run outside Istanbul?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/miia_k

Bilmek is one the verbs which very often are used with present continuous tense in Turkish.

The following most common verbs that aren't normally used in the simple present tense (in English) are mostly used in the present continuous tense in Turkish: istemek ( to want), duymak, işitmek (to hear), görmek (to see), kokmak (to smell [to have a particular smell]), sevmek (to love / to like), nefret etmek (to hate), inanmak (to believe), anlamak (to understand), bilmek (to know [to have information about something]), hatırlamak (to remember), oturmak/yaşamak (to live [in a place]), tanımak (to know [to be familiar with a person]), unutmak (to forget).

I hope this helps :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GordonRobb

So is it more that these verbs translate continuous as simple present, but others don't! Rather than there are situations that make it different!

And yes! Helpful!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dgloster

An English verb can usually be classified as either an "action verb" or a "stative verb". As the name implies stative verbs don't normally describe an ACTION taking place ('run', 'speak') but rather a STATE ('know', 'like'). Stative verbs are not used in the continuous form in English.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Samia732007

How would we say "We are running out of Istanbul" in Turkish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VidProSura

Biz İstanbul'dan dışarı koşuyoruz.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Rosa302176

Why "Istanbul'un? Could i say "Istanbul'in"? thank you


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

Hi, Rosa. It has to be "İstanbul'un," due to (4-way) vowel-harmony rules:
(o, u) → u ("Sen yorgun musun?")
(ö, ü) → ü ("Görüşürüz!")
(e, i) → i ("Evin içi")
(a, ı) → ı ("Kadınların babaları")
https://www.duolingo.com/skill/tr/Accusative/tips-and-notes


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Polishlear17

Please, someone help with explanation, what's the difference between "evin dışına" and "Istanbul'un dışında" ? Why does it differs? I guess the meaning is the same (going out of ...)

And there's one more "dışarı..." which makes these difficult to understand.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

Hello, Polishlear. Google Translate tells us that dış can be an adjective ("outer," "outside," "foreign," etc.) or a noun ("outside"). And it tells us that dışarı can be an adverb ("out," "outside of") or a noun ("outside," "exterior"). So, having these basic meanings in mind, we can now think about the effect of adding various suffixes (as in some of the cases that you asked about).

Let's start with "evin dışına." "evin dışı" is an example of a possessive structure, where "ev" is the possessor, "in" marks it as such, "dış" is the possessed, and "ı" marks it as such. So, together, it gives "[the] outside of the house." But the whole expression is "evin dışına." The "a" is the dative suffix, giving the meaning "to the outside of the house." The "n" (in "dışına") is just a buffer consonant between "ı" and "a."

In the next case, "İstanbul'un dışında," we again have a possessive structure, something about "Istanbul's outside." It would actually be the same as the first case we looked at, except that here, we don't have "İstanbul'un dışına," but "İstanbul'un dışında." That is, we have not the dative suffix, but the locative. (And the meaningless "n" buffer appears once more, I guess because Turkish prefers to have it before the letter "d.") But with the presence of the locative suffix in "İstanbul'un dışında," we can tell that something is being said about the outside of Istanbul; namely, we're not going to there, nor are we going away from there, but instead we are there: that's where the action of the sentence is happening. We are running (in the place/area that is) outside of Istanbul.

As for dışarı, I mentioned its meanings according to GT above. Apart from that, I'll just say that it too can receive various suffixes (along with the "n" buffer). And I agree that it's hard to keep track of little words with spellings that are similar but different. I think we just read and absorb the language bit by bit, and stuff eventually becomes clearer.

Finally, permit me to offer a little correction to one of the questions you wrote. "Why does it differs?" is not grammatical; it should be "Why does it differ ?" In questions of this form ("Why does it [verb]?"), "does" is a "helping verb" and is conjugated. But "[verb]" is not conjugated; it must stand in its infinitive form.

Any additions or corrections to this lengthy commentary are welcome!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Polishlear17

Hello, Todd940413. Wow, thanks a lot for your great and full response to my question! I highly appreciate. I am not the native speaker of both languages, so these are really helpful and very clear explanations. Thanks for your time, now I got it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HamzaAbdul175491

Why we did not say: istantbul'un dişinda koşuyoruz? Without Biz


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Todd940413

Hi, HamzaAbdul. Why did we not leave off "Biz"? I don't know, but it could have been left off. (That version should also be accepted.) Including it probably just puts a bit more emphasis on the subject.

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