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  5. "Onlar kitabı okurlar."

"Onlar kitabı okurlar."

Translation:They read the book.

March 24, 2015

52 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carsayzylum

Here it says "okurlar" for they read. But in the last section, they eat was just "yer" not "yerler," why?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A1fie

When the subject of the sentence is plural, the verb (more accurately the predicate) can be singular OR plural.

As a rule of thumb, "non-human subjects" almost always take a "singular" verb. Human subjects on the other hand, can take a singular or plural verb. "Usually" if the action is completed by the subjects as one unit, the verb is singular.

But these rules are not very strict any more, therefore Duolingo should accept both "okur" and "okurlar".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lisa4duolingo

Both A1fie and LupoMikti's replies were very good. In fact, they are some of the most informative replies I've seen on this topic. I don't have much to add, other than a couple of memory aids and a comment about how this relates to English.

As a memory aid, you could think of this grammatical structure in this way: When you do things altogether as one, you are often more efficient. Efficiency often means streamlined and the streamlined version of something eliminates anything unnecessary, to include the –lar/-ler suffix.

You could also think of it this way: In English, when we refer to a bunch of people as a group, we apply the singular forms to it. We say, “The group is leaving,” and not “The group are leaving.”

Having said that, I’m kind of hung up on the fact that if a bunch of people were acting as one, as in a group for example, wouldn’t you express that with an appropriate choice of words rather than simply eliminate a suffix? [For example, say, "Group of them/people ..." rather than just "They (onlar) ..."] Let me apply this to an actual sentence to further illustrate:

Grup gidiyor. (Literally, "The group is going.")

Onlar gidiyor. [Literally, "They is going," but translated into English as "They are going." The implied meaning, in English, seems to be "They (as in the group of them) is going and therefore the third person singular verb form is used. Translated literally, it would be "They is going," which would not be grammatically correct and used only in rare, colloquial instances.]

If Google search results are a good indicator, it appears that "onlar gidiyor" is clearly the preferred way of conveying this.

On a side note, in English, we could do something similar with a third person plural subject -- use third person singular (3PS) instead of third person plural (3PP) -- but it would be considered bad English. For example, we could say, “The girls is leaving,” but it would be an affected, cutesy sort of way to say “The girls are leaving.” The first version is not grammatically correct and would be rarely heard whereas the second is grammatically correct and the way you would hear this conveyed most often. I get the impression, from reading several posts, that the distinction between 3PS and 3PP isn't quite as rigid in Turkish as it is in English.

Hope that helped in some way.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/potatososa

I am Turkish and i can say that is wrong to say okurlar. It is gramatically wrong. It should be "okur" . With plural object , verb supposed to be always singular. However it is not a big deal to say "okurlar " Even the most Turkish people do the same mistake. But in duolingo they teached you in this way. As i said it is not a big deal to say "okur" or "okurlar" . They should be both accepted.

Edit: what i said works with they (onlar ) . not with siz ( you plural) . For example if you say:

"You(pl) read the book" ==>Siz kitabı okursunuz, not "siz kitabı okursun."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MuhammadNagi

Affedersin, but is 'kitabi' (the object), a plural?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BronwenJon6

No, I think that would be "kitapları".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A1fie

It's not very common but it's grammatically correct.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OK_SYR

"Kitap" is also Arabic word "كتاب" (kitap)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ataltane

Which is actually written "kitab", right? There being no p in Arabic...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/OK_SYR

Ah, yes, you are right, it's 'kitab' not 'kitap'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/j.wilder

Though it's originally Arabic, it's spread into a multitude of languages in addition to Turkish, such as Persian, Hindi, and Urdu.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lky_Maram

Yes i'm from algeria and i know speak arabic


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LupoMikti

So, let's say that there's a classroom full of students all assigned to read the same book. Each gets their own individual copy of that book, but the reading of the book will only be done during class, not on their own.

Now, if I wanted to say "They read the book", would I use the singular okur or the plural okurlar? Thanks to the ambiguities of English, I could reason that because all of the students make up the unit that is the 'class', they are doing the activity of reading the book together, and could use okur. However, I could also reason that because each student individually reads the book in the class, I should use okurlar. In both instances the students all read the same book as a class, but they have to physically read the book individually.

In this situation, what would Onlar kitabı okurlar signify as opposed to Onlar kitabı okur?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A1fie

They are BOTH perfectly correct. If you want to be extremely picky, "okurlar" would be better because all the students are doing the reading individually even though it is the same book.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LupoMikti

Teşekkür ederim! That'll certainly help to keep things clear in my head.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrederickEason

Why is it okurlar and not okurler? Is this another effect of vowel harmony? If so, what are the rules for vowel harmony in this case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jansamu

This is two-way vowel harmony.

The A/undotted vowel group (A, I, O and U) harmonise to A ∴ -lar

The E/dotted vowel group (E, İ, Ö and Ü) harmonise to E ∴ -ler


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrederickEason

What about words with both E and A, like elma? Which vowel dictates the ending?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jansamu

Always the final vowel, whether being the end of the word or in the last syllable.

elma --> elmalar


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FrederickEason

Thank you for the explanation.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/srdowns310

why doesn't it mean " they read the books"? how would you say this instead?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/orde90

onlar kitapları okurlar.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Pascowl

kitabı mean "the book", books mean "kitaplar"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

kitabı would be "the book" though :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MariaKnuds6

I can't gwt this right,even though it's right.. Frustrating


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Deus_vult_sic

Please, why somewhere else in duolingo it was "kitabu"? A mistake there?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/leesh_6868

Can't it be they are reading the book?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A1fie

That would be "Onlar kitabı okuYOR" or "Onlar kitabı okuYORlar". "-yor" acts like "-ing" and this structure is almost identical to "present continuous" in English apart from the word order..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FOODKING1

is there a time frame involved with this sentence? it wouldn't make sense for multiple people to read a book at the same time.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

Little kids read books together in a group all the time :) (think about story-time)

Also, different people could read different copies of the same book.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FOODKING1

but it said THE book, not a book type, meaning one specific book.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LupoMikti

The word 'the' does not necessarily always refer to a quantity of 1. In this case, it refers to the specificity of the fact that there is one book (but multiple copies) being read, instead of each person reading a different book.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/FOODKING1

the first one i have to give you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mooncats

What is the infinitive of the verb 'read'? Is it 'okur'?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

The infinitive would be "okumak," but you will learn more about that later on in the tree :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarinaPhil1

Why wnen we write Onlar kitabı okurlar - we use this rule [kitabı], but when we write Siz gazete okursunuz - we do not use this rule?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A1fie

Kitabı means "the book" whereas "siz gazete okursunuz" means "you read newspaper(s)". "gazeteyi" means "the newspaper".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MarinaPhil1

I mean why we do not change the ending of a noun? Siz = You (plural form, right?), so gazete should be with the plural ending....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/A1fie

Sen okursun (you read); Siz okursunuz (you read [plural or polite you]. Gazete stays singular as you are talking generally about the action.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnsaSaleem1

In the last question 'Onlar gazete okur' was translated to 'they read newspapers' and the reason given for translating 'gazete' into 'newspapers' instead of newspaper was that it was not written onlar 'bir' gazete okur. But here, its also not written bir with the kitabı. But it translates into the book instead of the plural form. Can someone please clarify?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JohnLongin

The previous answer was kitabı okurlar for they read books. How can it be both?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZolfaMoham

ليه قال okurlar ومقالش okur ؟؟


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/itsmedvna_

what is the difference between okur and okurlar?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/r_alamiri97

they read the book


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sepehr379213

Why it means They read the book, why not; They read the books??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Satish974350

I agree with AnsaSaleem1.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rashidgreen

Why not "They read book"

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