"Su ve elma"

Translation:Water and apple

March 24, 2015

36 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/thusly_frabjous

It's not the core of the matter, but would you be referring to one apple, apples plural, a particular apple, or merely some apple (as in French 'des pomme')?

(Incidentally, thank you so much for creating this course! I'm just nitpicking.) :)

EDIT: I think I might be able to answer my own question now. One of the moderators seemed to confirm in another comment section that the object (elma) is automatically plural if there is no 'bir' before it. Apparently we get an explanation in the Food skill. (Sorry - I can't figure out how to link to comments.)

March 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/burak.duolingo

About plurals in Turkish: When you add a number in front, the root does not take a plural suffix.

So, unlike in English, where you would say "one apple, two apples, three apples, etc", in Turkish, you would say "one apple, two apple, three apple, etc" (notice the lack of the plural-making -s at the end.) So you would say "bir elma, iki elma, üç elma, etc.

HOWEVER, you CAN say "apples" by itself (without a number specifier). As in, "the apples on the table" (masadaki elmalar), or "those apples" (o elmalar).

In terms of the suffixes for making plural forms, there are only two possibilities: you can either use -ler or -lar.

What determines when it's -ler vs -lar? A little rule called "vowel harmony", which you'll pick up later. Basically, in order to avoid the vocal strain caused by constant ups and downs due to switching back and forth between different types of vowels, Turkish has grouped its eight vowels into two groups of four: Aa, Iı, Oo and Uu constitute the "hard vowels". Ee, İi, Öö, and Üü constitute the "soft vowels". In essence, vowel harmony dictates that hard vowels should only be used together and soft vowels should only be used together, and that these two vowel types should not mix together. So a word like "kimono" does not fit vowel harmony rules, because it mixes a hard vowel (o) with a soft vowel (i).

Vowel harmony extends into how word roots interact with their suffixes. In this context, vowel harmony dictates that the vowels found in a suffix ought to be in the same vowel family (hard vs soft) as the last vowel of the root. So, for example, "masalar" (tables) is composed of the root "masa" (table) and the plural suffix -lar. The "a"s correspond to each other (i.e. both hard vowels), and the word thus fits the vowel harmony rules. Similarly, the word "eller" (hands) is composed of the root "el" (hand) and the plural suffix -ler. The "e"s correspond to each other (i.e. both soft vowels), and the word thus fits the vowel harmony rules.

So now that you know the basic rules, what would you append to the roots "tür" (kind/type), "kalem" * (pencil), "kitap" * (book), "yol" (road), "deniz" (sea), and "göl" (lake) to make them plural? You would say türler, kalemler, kitaplar, yollar, denizler, and göller, respectively.

*You'll notice that the roots "kalem" and "kitap" themselves do not fit into vowel harmony rules. This is because they are foreign language imports, and vowel harmony does not apply to the stem of loanwords. It does, however, apply to what suffixes may be appended to those stems, as we saw with kalemler and kitaplar.

April 30, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmiGami4

Who talk me it in Polish langauge, please.

January 30, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RoyDeSmet

I have come to understand that there are no articles in Turkish, but that sometimes the word 'bir' can be used (which means 'one') as the indefinite article 'a/an'.

March 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyNurington

Yes, "bir" means "one" anyways which is the same thing as having a/an before a word.

March 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyNurington

I don't think you can automatically assume something is in plural just because there is no 'bir' before it. In the example above "su ve elma" makes me think it's the answer to a question like "what are you having? oh, just water and apple" I may be misunderstanding your question, so feel free to clarify. :)

March 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RoyDeSmet

The problem is, I think, that in English (nor in Dutch or German) you don't say "water and apple". You can say "water" just by itself (it's an uncount noun) but you don't simply say "I'm having apple". You have to use an article "I'm having an apple", "Ich habe ein apfel", "Ik eet een appel", "Je mange une pomme", etc.

HOWEVER, in Irish Gaelic, you don't have indefinite articles (a/an) at all, only the definite article (the). How does that work in Turkish?

March 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyNurington

When I wrote the example above, I wrote it in English however with the Turkish phrasing in mind. I hope I didn't confuse you there! :)

So, moving on to your second question. You don't need to have definite articles in Turkish. It's perfectly fine to say "Elma yiyorum - I am eating an apple." which would be odd in English. (I am eating apple just sounds wrong!)

March 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RoyDeSmet

Once I learn how to say 'thank you' in Turkish, I will say it to you. For now, a lingot will have to do ;-)

March 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyNurington

Aww that's kind, thank you! :)

March 24, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ZinabBibi

Ertugrul

October 31, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YasmineL8

How does the water and the apple not work??? I put it in and ❌ didn't work at all

March 17, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/votears

Does Turkish distinguish gender/number/case?

Seems at least it does not care about number?

March 27, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

There is no gender in Turkish. Number is important, but it down't show up in some contexts. And cases...there are cases aplenty. :D

April 1, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JuergenZirak

Wouldn't "apples" like "apples in general/as a category" instead of "an apple" be acceptable for the singular form "elma" here as well?

April 15, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RahimaRaho

Je ne prendre pas

June 9, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VeyselCan318553

I'm Turkish :))

July 3, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JK97ARMY

Ben zaten türküm burada ne işim var shshwhwjsugshsjs

November 10, 2018

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amitaf797238

Немного пока непонятны комментарии

February 23, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YaroslavYa101755

お疲れ様

August 19, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoNameNoFace

I am unsure on this but is there a very slightly longer pause between "ve elma" than there is with "su ve"? So Im asking if vowel follows another if it needs to be ununciated well rather than it sometimes sounding like "velma" when speaking faster?

April 21, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alurianas

It sometimes sounds like that. Turkish is fast paced. "Bir elma", sounds like "bi relma". You can pause between to avoid that, but it is not necessary. Just like "ve elma" sounds like "velma" just because it has the same letter at the end of ve and beginning of elma.

April 26, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NoNameNoFace

Alright, thank you.

April 28, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BRyeO12

So in Turkish, when you have two of the same vowel together like the e's in "ve elma" are they pronounced together as "velma" like in Spanish, or separate as "ve 'elma" or is it a long e like "veelma"?

July 23, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/karrman

No, there is no such a rule as you said. So you must pronounce every letter of Turkish words as a rule.

But, there some exceptions which I can exemplify although they are not the same with your example.

Ne oluyor? (What's happening?) --> N'oluyor? (Only in spoken Turkish)

Ne için? (What for? / Why?) --> Niçin? (Both in written and spoken Turkish)

July 23, 2015

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Sauroc-

My answer here "water and a apple" was counted incorrect. While I understand that the sentence didnt say 《su ve bir elma》it doesnt make sense in english translated literally as "water and apple". Any thoughts?

February 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

You issue is that "a apple" is incorrect English. You would have to say "an apple" which is indeed accepted :)

February 19, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/-Sauroc-

Alright, thanks you! Critical thinking skills are rather limited here. :D

February 20, 2016

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ReqsaneMem

Hello

October 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bex257034
August 3, 2019

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ReqsaneMem

Water

October 11, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sararzayeva

i dont understand, why your programme does not accep my writing

November 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sararzayeva

level 1 and basic in your programme, dont accept my answer . i repeat more time .

November 3, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/imedadel

Do people today use the word "ma" to mean "su"?

April 13, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

No...

April 15, 2017

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AhmedRaafa59934

Ok

August 27, 2017
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