"Oftast lagar vi mat själva."
Translation:Usually we cook by ourselves.
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I think the original comment by km1 was not that the sentence should include "prefer" but that "cooking myself" refers idiomatically to suffering a burn, and literally to being cooked. In spite of the lengthy comment by the Californian below, it is technically grammatical to say "I cook myself" but not culturally accepted to describe cooking "for" myself (cooking my own food) or cooking "by" myself (without other people in the kitchen to distract me). There -is- one other use for "I cook myself," as a contrastive or emphatic phrase. It parallels the native speaker's claim to expertise (which could be phrased "well in contrast to all you second-language English speakers, I speak native English myself, and I think....").
I don't mean to use my status as a native English speaker to condescend or to elevate my opinion on this matter at all, but I'm convinced that what I'm saying is right and I'd like to explain it better, but I think it's kind of tricky to explain to a non-native (it's even tricky to explain to another native!)
But I thought of a better example that may help.
The difficulty here is in English, when you use the word ourselves or myself, it wants to act like an object, as kirakrakra points out, but it doesn't have to.
A good example would be the phrase "I dabble myself." If someone asks you, "do you play poker?" You might reply, "I dabble (in it) myself." The object here (in it) can be omitted. "I dabble myself" is perfectly fine, and clear. You could also say "I myself dabble (in it)."
I completely understand the confusion here, but I fully support the mods deciding to accept "Usually/often we cook (for/by) ourselves." It's perfectly acceptable English despite sounding so strange. (imho!)
In Polish we say:
"Zwykle gotujemy SAMI, ale czasem moja mama gotuje dla nas."
Where "SAMI" means that we are those people who cook and it is not important here for whom we cook, but who performs the cooking action.
I think it should be:
"Usually we cook BY OURSELVES, but sometimes my mother cooks for us." (with BY)
"Oftast lagar vi mat själva, men ibland min mor kockar för oss."
If I say in Polish:
"Jest tak gorąco, że my gotujemy SIĘ w tych ubraniach/w tym Jacuzzi/w saunie."
I think it should be:
"It's so hot, that we cook OURSELVES in the clothes/in the Jacuzzi/in the sauna" (without BY)
and something like that:
"Det är så varmt att vi KOKAR SIG SJALV" i kläderna/i jacuzzin/i bastun."
In summary, I believe that "Usually we cook BY ourselves." is the only correct translation.
Am I right? :)
Personally, as a native Californian, I don't think so. I follow your logic here and I think it's sound. But, for me, it doesn't quite work that way in English.
Let me start with your middle example: "...we cook ourselves in the clothes/in the jacuzzi..."
In that instance, my gut instinct is to put it in the passive voice. I'd say "It's so hot, we're getting cooked (in these clothes/in this jacuzzi/in the sauna."
As far as why I wouldn't say BY ourselves... BY presents the same problem as FOR. It emphasizes a different meaning. "We usually cook by ourselves" means we, just us and no one else, make food, alone. "We usually cook for ourselves" means we take care of the cooking (instead of going out and someone cooking for us.)
If I were to choose between BY and FOR, I'd choose FOR, as the closest meaning to "We usually cook ourselves."
But, the emphasis of "we usually cook ourselves" is slightly different. It states that we usually cook for ourselves, but without an emphasis that we do it for ourselves as a service, or even as some kind of preference, to others cooking for us. In a way, "We usually cook ourselves" is agnostic, while "we usually cook for ourselves" highlights the choice.
BY, FOR, or just OURSELVES, are all correct, and the semantic differences are small preferences for the speaker to make.
=) thoughts? I like this topic.
Thank you for your explanation. Of course, I, as a Pole, for whom English is not a native language, do not feel all the subtle differences (e.g. whether it is better to use the passive voice). However, I managed to find a few examples of the active voice used for the similar sentences.
“Still a little frost nibbled, we ate hurriedly, pulled on fluffy white robes and went to cook ourselves in the spa.” “Here we lay out and baked ourselves in the blistering sunshine…” http://www.thelondoner.me/2014/09/white-water.html
“(And we always make time to cook ourselves in the desert sun for an hour or two a day, of course!)” http://www.stackednewyork.com/blog/2015/6/9/stacked-in-vegas
Due to the fact that our basic Swedish sentence was in the active voice, I am looking for answers how to distinguish (both in Swedish and English) between:
We say in Polish:
“My gotujemy SAMI.” This means that WE are the people, who cook,
“My gotujemy DLA SIEBIE.” This means that we cook FOR OURSELVES,
“My gotujemy SAMI dla SIEBIE.” Or “My gotujemy SAMI SOBIE.” This means that WE are the people who cook and we cook FOR OURSELVES,
“My gotujemy SIĘ.” This means "WE cook OURSELVES," (WE suffer BEING COOKED).
I hope that, although the Polish language does not belong to the group of Germanic languages, it still is an Indo-European language, and we can come to some consensus here. :)
Yes, thank you, what an interesting perspective you bring!
I think English just has more tolerance than other languages for ambiguities; it especially has more tolerance in comparison to languages that have more complex case structures, like Polish, and many other Indo-European languages, especially the Eastern ones!
I also think Swedish is similar to English in this way, at least in my limited experience of Swedish so far.
EDIT: I also want to point out that you brought up fine examples of "cooking ourselves" in the active voice, and while grammatically correct, and functionally perfect, they strike me as almost literary and a turn of phrase that I would use verbally only when purposefully being cheeky.
I have reported 'Usually, we cook for ourselves' which someone has already brought up, because that would be the most natural way of saying it in English for me. I know that TECHNICALLY you could say that 'for ourselves' means that the food is for us and not someone else, but if you're going to be that technical, then it should not accept 'usually' either. I understand that it accepts 'we usually cook ourselves' which would actually mean like Hannibal Lecter style, DEPENDING on tone. If the stress was on 'selves', then it would sound normal, if the stress was on 'cook' then it would sound like you were planning to eat your own body. Basically what I'm saying is, it's a sentence with some subtleties that in English would most commonly be negotiated with "cook FOR ourselves..."
Being Dutch I understand the 'själva' part intuitively. 'Oftast' has me confused however. Does it literally mean 'most often'? Could it be used in comparisons? Eg. They cook often by themselves and the neighbours cook by themselves more often but we cook by ourselves most often? (Somehow this example doesn't work well in English. In Dutch it would be something like. Zij koken vaak zelf, de buren koken vaker zelf, maar wij koken het vaakst zelf.) Also I'm having a hard time getting from 'most often' to 'usually'. Or is that something that is just the way it is?
On a side note, that sentence reminded me of this song https://youtu.be/WyYC9qRlJxY