"Oftast lagar vi mat själva."

Translation:Usually we cook by ourselves.

March 24, 2015

58 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/km1

I prefer to cook my food and not to cook myself -- ouch! Better English would be "Usually we prefer to cook by ourselves."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jbrains762

I would say "...for ourselves", since "...by ourselves" to me implies "alone" as opposed to "with someone else", whereas "...for ourselves" to me says "as opposed to letting someone else cook for us".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RaptorsOnBikes

This is how I interpreted it. I don't think "by ourselves" implies the same meaning at all.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

I think that's on purpose for fun. :) I assume that your translation is accepted, too.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Arnauti

'Usually we cook by ourselves' is accepted, but we don't accept adding prefer to here, I think that would be adding a bit too much that isn't there in the Swedish sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Fair enough. If you want to add it as a second-level comment, I can withdraw mine.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/carolin_o

I think the original comment by km1 was not that the sentence should include "prefer" but that "cooking myself" refers idiomatically to suffering a burn, and literally to being cooked. In spite of the lengthy comment by the Californian below, it is technically grammatical to say "I cook myself" but not culturally accepted to describe cooking "for" myself (cooking my own food) or cooking "by" myself (without other people in the kitchen to distract me). There -is- one other use for "I cook myself," as a contrastive or emphatic phrase. It parallels the native speaker's claim to expertise (which could be phrased "well in contrast to all you second-language English speakers, I speak native English myself, and I think....").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kirakrakra

But does our food not make a difference, then myself is not the object.

I cook the food myself vs. I cook myself

I will tell him myself vs I will tell myself

I water the flowers myself vs I water myself


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

Yes, that would eliminate any misunderstanding.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan181291

I don't mean to use my status as a native English speaker to condescend or to elevate my opinion on this matter at all, but I'm convinced that what I'm saying is right and I'd like to explain it better, but I think it's kind of tricky to explain to a non-native (it's even tricky to explain to another native!)

But I thought of a better example that may help.

The difficulty here is in English, when you use the word ourselves or myself, it wants to act like an object, as kirakrakra points out, but it doesn't have to.

A good example would be the phrase "I dabble myself." If someone asks you, "do you play poker?" You might reply, "I dabble (in it) myself." The object here (in it) can be omitted. "I dabble myself" is perfectly fine, and clear. You could also say "I myself dabble (in it)."

I completely understand the confusion here, but I fully support the mods deciding to accept "Usually/often we cook (for/by) ourselves." It's perfectly acceptable English despite sounding so strange. (imho!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Chris-Butler

Why so many words for 'usually'? Are Oftast/brukar/vanligtvis all synonymous and interchangeable? Tack!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jbrains762

"usually", "normally", "typically", "often", "habitually", ... :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/InnominateOne

"Brukar" is a verb and so isn't quite interchangeable. Not sure about the others.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/iamOwenG

"We usually make our own food" seems to make more sense to me. 'Cooking ourselves' is a weird way to say it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hscorah

Would like to add another voice in favour of "for ourselves". Maybe it's a west coast thing but I would never say "by ourselves"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s0mmerfugl_

I assume this is the equivalent to "meistens" in German?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BazzaLH

I entered "we often cook cook for ourselves" and was rejected. This would seem to mean the same thing.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/s0mmerfugl_

No, it isn't, at least as far as I'm concerned.

If how I understood this sentence is correct, you'd have to say "We often cook food by ourselves", which means that "we" cook the food (by) ourselves without the help of anybody else.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

"Usually we cook ourselves" means we start the pot boiling and then jump in.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Faeryn396

hej i was curious when is the actual moments when i'm supposed to use oftast and when brukar is more appropriate. thanks in advance to anyone who wants to help me out! :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Generally speaking, brukar is for something you do regularly or habitually, and oftast means most of the time that you actually do something. Please note that there's lots of overlap.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PhilipBullen

I thought 'we usually do the cooking ourselves' might be a good translation, but was marked wrong.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sue321692

It seems like cooking "for ourselves" is better than "by ourselves."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kirakrakra

Reflexive pronouns + by meaning alone

We often use reflexive pronouns with by to mean ‘alone’ or ‘without any help’:

Why don’t you go by yourself?

The children made the entire meal by themselves.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ezra746950

A discrete way to ask a foreign guest to leave one alone in the kitchen.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheLinguist47

Rather than say 'usually' (which I would use as a translation for 'brukar'), why not say "more often than not we do the cooking" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Coelocanth

Other than the word order (feels like there should be a comma in there) that sounds fine to me. But "oftast" can definitely also be translated to "usually." Jag brukar samåka=I usually carpool.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/YufeiPang

Most often we cook by ourselves is an acceptable answer while We cook by ourselves most often is not.....


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HulluNiilo

we often cook by ourselves

Why is this not accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel
  • often = ofta
  • most often = oftast

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Interface001

"oftast" adj. eller adv.?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GodiSandra

In Polish we say:

"Zwykle gotujemy SAMI, ale czasem moja mama gotuje dla nas."

Where "SAMI" means that we are those people who cook and it is not important here for whom we cook, but who performs the cooking action.

I think it should be:

"Usually we cook BY OURSELVES, but sometimes my mother cooks for us." (with BY)

"Oftast lagar vi mat själva, men ibland min mor kockar för oss."

If I say in Polish:

"Jest tak gorąco, że my gotujemy SIĘ w tych ubraniach/w tym Jacuzzi/w saunie."

I think it should be:

"It's so hot, that we cook OURSELVES in the clothes/in the Jacuzzi/in the sauna" (without BY)

and something like that:

"Det är så varmt att vi KOKAR SIG SJALV" i kläderna/i jacuzzin/i bastun."

In summary, I believe that "Usually we cook BY ourselves." is the only correct translation.

Am I right? :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan181291

Personally, as a native Californian, I don't think so. I follow your logic here and I think it's sound. But, for me, it doesn't quite work that way in English.

Let me start with your middle example: "...we cook ourselves in the clothes/in the jacuzzi..."

In that instance, my gut instinct is to put it in the passive voice. I'd say "It's so hot, we're getting cooked (in these clothes/in this jacuzzi/in the sauna."

As far as why I wouldn't say BY ourselves... BY presents the same problem as FOR. It emphasizes a different meaning. "We usually cook by ourselves" means we, just us and no one else, make food, alone. "We usually cook for ourselves" means we take care of the cooking (instead of going out and someone cooking for us.)

If I were to choose between BY and FOR, I'd choose FOR, as the closest meaning to "We usually cook ourselves."

But, the emphasis of "we usually cook ourselves" is slightly different. It states that we usually cook for ourselves, but without an emphasis that we do it for ourselves as a service, or even as some kind of preference, to others cooking for us. In a way, "We usually cook ourselves" is agnostic, while "we usually cook for ourselves" highlights the choice.

BY, FOR, or just OURSELVES, are all correct, and the semantic differences are small preferences for the speaker to make.

=) thoughts? I like this topic.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GodiSandra

Thank you for your explanation. Of course, I, as a Pole, for whom English is not a native language, do not feel all the subtle differences (e.g. whether it is better to use the passive voice). However, I managed to find a few examples of the active voice used for the similar sentences.

“Still a little frost nibbled, we ate hurriedly, pulled on fluffy white robes and went to cook ourselves in the spa.” “Here we lay out and baked ourselves in the blistering sunshine…” http://www.thelondoner.me/2014/09/white-water.html

“(And we always make time to cook ourselves in the desert sun for an hour or two a day, of course!)” http://www.stackednewyork.com/blog/2015/6/9/stacked-in-vegas

Due to the fact that our basic Swedish sentence was in the active voice, I am looking for answers how to distinguish (both in Swedish and English) between:

We say in Polish:

  1. “My gotujemy SAMI.” This means that WE are the people, who cook,

  2. “My gotujemy DLA SIEBIE.” This means that we cook FOR OURSELVES,

  3. “My gotujemy SAMI dla SIEBIE.” Or “My gotujemy SAMI SOBIE.” This means that WE are the people who cook and we cook FOR OURSELVES,

  4. “My gotujemy SIĘ.” This means "WE cook OURSELVES," (WE suffer BEING COOKED).

I hope that, although the Polish language does not belong to the group of Germanic languages, it still is an Indo-European language, and we can come to some consensus here. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan181291

Yes, thank you, what an interesting perspective you bring!

I think English just has more tolerance than other languages for ambiguities; it especially has more tolerance in comparison to languages that have more complex case structures, like Polish, and many other Indo-European languages, especially the Eastern ones!

I also think Swedish is similar to English in this way, at least in my limited experience of Swedish so far.

EDIT: I also want to point out that you brought up fine examples of "cooking ourselves" in the active voice, and while grammatically correct, and functionally perfect, they strike me as almost literary and a turn of phrase that I would use verbally only when purposefully being cheeky.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/kirakrakra

GodiSandra

  1. VI SJÄLVA kokar/ VI kokar SJÄLVA

  2. VI kokar FÖR OSS SJÄLVA (We are alone when we cook)

  3. VI kokar ÅT OSS SJÄLVA (we cook and the food is for us)

  4. VI kokar OSS SJÄLVA (Usch så hemskt!)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

Note typo above: kockar (not kokar)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Actually, kockar means "cooks" as in "chefs", while kokar means "cooks" as in "boils".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

Note: No typo above. "Kokar" is correct. ;)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jeanbean425734

"Vi lagar mat själva."

Does this mean that two people are standing side-by-side cooking and nobody else is there?

Or does it mean that I am alone in my own kitchen making dinner, and my friend is alone in her kitchen making dinner?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Definitely the former. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/McLeods_Sons

I have reported 'Usually, we cook for ourselves' which someone has already brought up, because that would be the most natural way of saying it in English for me. I know that TECHNICALLY you could say that 'for ourselves' means that the food is for us and not someone else, but if you're going to be that technical, then it should not accept 'usually' either. I understand that it accepts 'we usually cook ourselves' which would actually mean like Hannibal Lecter style, DEPENDING on tone. If the stress was on 'selves', then it would sound normal, if the stress was on 'cook' then it would sound like you were planning to eat your own body. Basically what I'm saying is, it's a sentence with some subtleties that in English would most commonly be negotiated with "cook FOR ourselves..."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Uppsala18

Being Dutch I understand the 'själva' part intuitively. 'Oftast' has me confused however. Does it literally mean 'most often'? Could it be used in comparisons? Eg. They cook often by themselves and the neighbours cook by themselves more often but we cook by ourselves most often? (Somehow this example doesn't work well in English. In Dutch it would be something like. Zij koken vaak zelf, de buren koken vaker zelf, maar wij koken het vaakst zelf.) Also I'm having a hard time getting from 'most often' to 'usually'. Or is that something that is just the way it is?

On a side note, that sentence reminded me of this song https://youtu.be/WyYC9qRlJxY


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

Yup, that's right.

  • ofta = often
  • oftare = more often
  • oftast = most often

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zOJHoqLx

"We usually cook for ourselves" was not accepted?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/devalanteriel

själva means you're doing the cooking yourselves, but it doesn't say who will eat it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ClarkJensen21

Why does "Usually we cook our own food ourselves" not work?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dan181291

"our own food" = "vår egen mat"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HulluNiilo

more DL "trick questions" again.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Skiamakhos

What's wrong with "Usually we cook alone"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/John271009

How would you say we often cook by ourselves?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JanaK77

Why do i need to use "usually" here? I thought oftas means often?!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Martin676218

Why is this in "Adjectives"? In this context "usually" is an adverb, so is "oftast"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Dieter37241

Oftast means usually? I thought it means often. I am confused now. Please help!

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