"Tá an páiste scanraithe."

Translation:The child is scared.

3 years ago

14 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

There's an interesting example in the NEID -

Tá an leanbh scanraithe acu "they have frightened the child"

"they have the child frightened" sounds like a reasonable Hiberno-English construction to me.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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Scanraithe meaning “scared/frightened” is the verbal adjective of scanraigh, so Tá an leabh scanraithe acu is really a passive present perfect (“The child was frightened by them”) which can also be translated as an active present perfect, as both the NEID and the FGB did.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

Except that, as I noted above, in Hiberno-English "They have the child frightened" is a perfectly reasonable construction, and is basically a direct translation from the Irish phrase.

(It would usually be used in a slightly chiding tone - "You have that child all excited about his birthday", "he has that dog exhausted chasing after that stick", "he has his poor wife driven mad", "he has the house painted from top to bottom", "You have that poor boy scared out of his wits with your ghost stories", etc)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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That same English construction is used here, and I don’t deny that it’s a perfectly reasonable construction there. My point was that “ patient verbal-adjective ag agent” is a passive present perfect in Irish.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN
tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN
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Then, how would you say "They have the frightened child." (with them)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

From a purely grammatical point of view, you can say that Tá an leanbh scanraithe acu is "they have the frightened child". From the point of view of normal, idiomatic usage, though, that would be an unlikely translation, except in a very specific context, and the more obvious translation is "they have frightened the child" or "they have the child frightened".

In other words, while both the Irish and the English sentence use language that normally indicates possession (tá .. ag and "have"), possession of the child would not be the default interpretation of this sentence in either language. If you wanted to clarify that "they have the child with them" is the intended meaning, then you could say tá sé acu, an leanbh scanraithe or tá an leanbh scraithe leo.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sp1jk3z

I'm wondering - to "have frightened" means using the word scanraithe as a verb, to me.

Doesn't the sentence you give translate to more like, "the child is frightened by(with) them", I don't know if it's a valid sentence not being a native speaker. Or if it's the right prepositional pronoun to use. Thanks for any help!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

The literal translation is "they have the child frightened" (which happens to make perfect sense in Hiberno-English). "They have frightened the child" is a better translation than "the child is frightened by them" because the child isn't the subject of the sentence.

The verb is , but it's Tá ... acu, which is the equivalent of "to have" in English.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sp1jk3z

So with Tá ... acu :

That construct moves the "they" in the prepositional pronoun into the subject position and child into the object? Arggghh.. Me head!

Ah.. I see, scanraithe is not the verb... It's an adjective, is it?

Bear with me, linguistics not me forte.

Thanks!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

I'm not sure that linguistics and grammar are all that helpful in this case, because the construction of the sentence in English is quite different from the construction in Irish

Tá an leanbh scanraithe - "The child is frightened"
Tá an leanbh scanraithe acu - "They have the child frightened"
This is just one of those idioms that doesn't have a direct translation. Tá ... ag usually means possession/ownership of something, and in for this particular sentence, there is no way that I can think of to say this in English that implies possession (except in the supernatural sense, but sin scéal eile!). The "have" in "they have frightened the child" isn't the "have" of possession/ownership, but "They have frightened the child" still gives a better sense of the meaning of the original sentence.

But on another level, you could reasonably make the case that "The child is frightened by them" and "They have frightened the child" mean the same thing, and it's irrelevant which is the subject and which is the object.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN
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See and I thought the possession would end up making it "They have the frightened child.", I am still floundering then if this ends up making the present perfect. Did they cause the child to be frightened or do they simply have the child who is frightened with them?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SimonFlahe

Is their a situation where "Tá X scanraithe" is preferable to "Tá eagla ar X" or vice versa, or are they interchangeable?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/galaxyrocker

It's roughly the same difference as English "X is scared" v. "X is afraid", so not much of one at all. You can all use Tá faitíos ar X

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/B-mhongoadh

'Tá an leanbh scanraithe acu / they have the child frightened'.

First time I saw this I thought it was bearlach - It never occurred to me the translation was Hib. Eng. until I read the post here, just goes to show two way traffic that goes on between tongues.

1 year ago
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