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"Şu kitaplar"

Translation:Those books

3 years ago

16 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/Relesh
Relesh
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Why cant this be "Those are books?"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Selcen_Ozturk
Selcen_Ozturk
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"Those are books": Şunlar kitap/Şunlar kitaptır

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
JamesTWils
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Is that second form another plural? How is kitaptir (please ignore the dot) different from kitaplar?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/baumi_de

The "-tır" is actually the optional suffix for 3rd person singular. (He/she/it is).

So why is it singular? I think that Turkish avoids the plural if at all possible. E.g., "two books" is "iki kitap". There's no plural ending to the noun, because the number already establishes that we're talking about more than one. Same here with "şunlar", which makes it clear we're talking about more than one.

It can be quite counter-intuitive, especially because in other cases (e.g., when using the possessives) matching the suffixes is very important.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
JamesTWils
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I can now see why early Hungarian scholars thought their Uralic languages and the Turkic languages were related, since in this, as in so many other grammatical features, they are similar. Essentially, Hungarian avoids the plural wherever it is not needed for clarity, as after numbers (két könyv, rather than két könyvek).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/schyrsivochter

Turkish does that, too! Weird …

And they also both have some form of vowel harmony.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/afshindavoudy

Same as persian!

5 days ago

https://www.duolingo.com/alantheazn
alantheazn
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If 'o' can also mean 'those', would "O kitaplar" work in this case for this translation? In another sentence, "Ben o balıkları yerim" translated to "I eat those fish." If so, what would be the difference between the two words for "those"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/onurgur1

Yes, for translational purposes they are synonyms. In usage one would use 'şu' while pointing towards the object and use 'o' while talking about the object in general.

For example one can point to the fish and ask someone 'Su baliklari yer misin?', and the person replying would look at the person who asked the question and reply 'Evet, o baliklari yerim'.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/truelefty
truelefty
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Şu kitaplar = Those books
Şunlar kitaplar = Those are books?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Selcen_Ozturk
Selcen_Ozturk
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yes although for the second one it is better to say "şunlar kitap"

şunlar kitaplar is more like "those are the books"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/truelefty
truelefty
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But "şunlar kitap"... kitap is singular?

And "those are the books" wouldn't be "şunlar kitaplaryi" or something like that?

Anyway, I won't be saying "those are the books" every day ;)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Selcen_Ozturk
Selcen_Ozturk
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OK so in "şunlar kitap" kitap is the predicate (e.g. there is no verb so you can think of it as a false verb). Therefore it will be conjugated like a verb; and for 3rd person plural, the -ler suffix is optional and often not used.

and no you cannot say "şunlar kitaplaryi" or anything like that; the accusative case, or cases in general, is for the object of a sentence, there is no object here.. "the" doesn't always mean accusative; accusative is for a direct definite object, and definite objects in English are preceded by "the" or other determinerS (that those this etc)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/truelefty
truelefty
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Oh, Teşekkür ederim :)

I'm experienced with the use of cases, because of German, but I always translate things from German to Spanish or vice versa, so as I saw "the" translated as accusative in Turkish... every time... I though that^ (what I said in my other comments)

But you corrected me and I appreciate that :) Thank you again

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Abdalrahma954438

Why some plurals with "ler" and some with "lar" ?

3 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JamesTWils
JamesTWils
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Most of the Turkic and Uralic languages, including Turkish, have what's called vowel harmony. In all native words, all the vowels will be generally of the same character (closed, open, back, front). That changes the vowel in suffixes and even the little particles, such as "mu." If you see a word with different kinds of vowels in it, it's probably a borrowing, most often from Arabic. "Kitap" is from Arabic and has a front vowel followed by a back vowel. I always forget that and leave the dot off the I. The plural ending then follows the last vowel, an A after an A.

3 months ago