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"The lion"

Translation:Aslan

3 years ago

22 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/SamwellTarly
SamwellTarly
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For Aslan!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/drumwhacker

It needed to be pledged, no way out of that!

1 month ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vvsey
vvsey
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Are both "aslan" and "arslan" correct for lion? What is the difference? Is one of them more correct, ie. the official version? Thanks.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JohnWycliffe
JohnWycliffe
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Arslan is the older form, and I think it's considered more archaic but I could be mistaken. I know that aslan is the more common of the two. Arslan comes from the old Turkic roots ars (unknown meaning) and lan (suffix of a predatory animal). Aslan is a more recent shortening (though centuries old).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vvsey
vvsey
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Thank you! When I first heard the word, I thought I was hearing "arslan", and was surprised to see it without the R here in Duo. Now I know both are correct.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/JuanAntoni154283
JuanAntoni154283
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Narnia!!!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SetragAvakian

Why not O aslan?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jjd1123
jjd1123
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As far as I know, "o" means "he / she / it" or "that", but not "the".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sam24sweetii

Yeah, why was "the book" kitabı but "the lion" is just aslan??

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jjd1123
jjd1123
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Since we don't really know in which case "the lion" is without context, I would also have assumed that accusative "aslanı" could be another correct translation. Did you report it? Of course, if it isn't accusative then "aslanı" wouldn't be correct anyway.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Selcen_Ozturk
Selcen_Ozturk
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cases, especially accusative, don't make much sense unless used in a sentence. And anyway they are just for objects in a sentence, not for subjects

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jjd1123
jjd1123
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Couldn't the same be argued for nominative, though? A phrase like "the lion" cannot really "make sense" on its own anyway, in my opinion, since it isn't a statement. And since there isn't a sentence there cannot really be a subject (or object) of this sentence either.

Either way, from your answer and similar answers in other sentence discussions I take it that you're generally only accepting the absolute form for single word translations, correct?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Selcen_Ozturk
Selcen_Ozturk
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hmm no , that cannot be argued for nominative I think :)

Also I don't think any other course accepts that. At least the German course wouldn't accept "den Lehrer" or "dem Lehrer" for "the teacher". So I really wonder why people expect us to accept such translations. So yes, if there is no sentence, there shouldn't be a suffix.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jjd1123
jjd1123
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@Selcen "hmm no":

If "cases [...] don't make much sense unless used in a sentence" this should be true for nominative as well, shouldn't it? I also didn't know that other courses usually only accept nominative forms in these questions (although one might argue that e.g. in English all cases except the possessive look alike (Edit: for nouns), so strictly speaking they're being accepted).

I think some people expect the definite-accusative to be accepted because it's the only Turkish word form (at least in the first few lessons) that implies the definite article in English, while this isn't true in general for the absolute form (if I've understood everything correctly). One way around this would be to only use the nouns without articles in situations like this. On the other hand I can understand why course moderators would not want to be too liberal when it comes to accepted translations (while I personally wouldn't have a problem with accepting any translation for which there exists a context in which it makes sense).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LHGKA
LHGKA
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I just fell into the "aslanı" trap and agree with you that not displaying the article would make it clearer for the learner (especially in the lesson immediatedly following the one on the accusative case....).

As for the comparison Selcen makes with German, I'm not sure it is relevant: the article would be displayed in German as a way to show the grammatical gender of the noun - thus as a learning tool. Accepting answers from several cases could thus mean helping learners get away with not knowing the gender of a noun ("der", "des" and "dem" all work on two genders).

But beyond the linguistical debate, this seems like it is little more than a question of common-sense: In a language where the definite or indefinite aspect of nouns seems implied rather than said, it makes sense, as a learner, that, in translation exercises, the presence of an article is a hint on the expected answer.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/frankenstein724
frankenstein724
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Except that, linguistically, the nominative case tends to also be the most basic form. Also, if I've understood correctly, the nominative form also implies or, at least, can imply the definite article.

Also, just to clarify a little further though it doesn't add a whole lot to the particular conversation at hand maybe: As morphologically deficient as English is, possessives are not the only things that show case.

me, him, her, us, them

these are all accusative/dative case forms of the nominative

I, he, she, we, they

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/jjd1123
jjd1123
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@frankenstein724 "Except that, linguistically":

You make a few good points, but I also realised that I might have formulated my post a bit clearer at times.

When I said "implies" I probably should have said "necessitates". I know that the absolute can also be translated with a definite article (and often is), but the way I understand it it's also used in instances where English would use an indefinite or no article. So only context could tell whether an noun in the absolute case should be translated using a definite article, while there doesn't seem to be any ambiguity regarding the definite-accusative case.

You also have a point regarding nominative / absolute, and in fact I don't think I personally have ever translated these words on Duolingo in any other case. But that doesn't mean that using a different case in a translation is wrong per se. Especially if the definite-accusative case has to be translated using "the" in English. But as I said, if the moderators decide to only accept nominative / absolute forms in these exercises then I understand that.

And I didn't think of the pronouns in English, but as far as I know there aren't any translation exercises for them on their own, are there? I should have definitely stated that better, though.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ShannaKirgan

Why not "bir aslan" ?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Selcen_Ozturk
Selcen_Ozturk
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that's "a lion"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/umarbn

Why not "aslanyı" for "the lion"?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexinNotTurkey
AlexinNotTurkey
Mod
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First, it would be "aslanı" without the -y. Now, the accusative case is only used for specific direct objects and some time expressions. You will not see it on a word standing by itself, especially without a context like this. The accusative case does not always equate to "the." :)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MysticalBakerBee

LET THE NARNIA FANS REUNITE!

4 months ago