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  5. "Ben peyniri yerim."

"Ben peyniri yerim."

Translation:I eat the cheese.

March 25, 2015

101 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KareemIssa

Sorry! Just a question: when we use the accusative, (Peyniri) does it mean that we are specifying or the listener know what we are talking about, while when we are using the noun without the accusative suffix (peynir), we are talking about something general and the listener know the context?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/umarosm111

what is accusative....... what does it mean please help


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/GertOja

Accusative is one of 6 CASES in Turkish. A case is a kind of transformation used to mark the role of a noun in a sentence. In Turkish like most European languages, the case marker appear at the end of the word.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mountain799032

Sorry dear Selcen, may i know why some ge" i" and why some gets "ı" at the end by making it accresive


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Suli123abbc

IT MEANS CHICKEN WINGS


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MuhammadNagi

So, what is the difference between "Ben elmayi yerim" "Ben elma yerim" and "Ben bir elma yerim" ? I am sorry if this makes me look stupid.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johaquila

Here is how I understand it:

  1. Ben bir elma yerim. = I eat one apple. = I eat an apple.
  2. Ben elmayı yerim. = I eat the apple.
  3. Ben elma yerim. = I eat apples.

1 is easy. This works just like in English. 2 is also relatively easy. While Turkish doesn't have a definite article, it has a definite accusative case that is only used for direct objects that are definite.

A literal translation of 3 would of course be "I eat apple". This sounds wrong, but this kind of construction is not completely foreign to English. The construction treats apple as an uncountable word that describes the substance of which I am eating some. This is precisely what happens in the totally normal English sentence "I eat bread". With bread it works because that's an uncountable word describing a substance. Since it is very unusual to treat apple the same way, we have to correct the translation by using the plural apples.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MuhammadNagi

Thanks very much. Teşekkürler.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RAGHAD12158

Thanks "teşekkürler"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chaered

Ah, finally a cognate, through Indian food (paneer).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HishamAhamad

Turkish and Hindi/Urdu have a LOT of cognates, you'll see :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Balaur

Sorry to be a spoilsport, but it's technically not a cognate unless the words are genetically related. As a rule, if the languages are not proven to be in the same language family, they can't possibly share any cognates, though even related languages can borrow from each other, and words can't be considered cognates unless they independently developed directly from the ancestral language of the languages in question. The word 'peynir' would be considered a loanword, rather. Don't worry, I made this same mistake before I started studying linguistics. :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/chaered

I stand corrected -- my use of the term "cognate" was sloppily stretched beyond its proper semantics here. Guess in case of doubt I should use the word "friend" to cover either a recognizable loanword or cognate of mnemonic utility.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

But its not a loan word from Hindi/Urdu either; it's a loan word from Persian, which itself has cognates with Hindi/Urdu. So what do you call that?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shrikrishna1

Is it a Persian word or Persian itself has borrowed from Arabic/ Turkish?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

It is a Persian word originally :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Narcissus98

It is a persion word that we have and we use it but with a little diffrent pronuncotion.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AndreaMusa95

I know only one word in persian that come from turkish. In osmanli there were a lot of persian words, and some of them are still there in turkish


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChiBegam

In Iran also we call it exactly as "Paneer"...

Like:

"Noon o Paneer"

which means:

"Bread & Cheese"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/IhabAli3

Please what's the difference between peyniri and peynir??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johaquila

Peyniri is the definite accusative of peynir. (In this course the definite accusative is just called the accusative. It's the same thing.)

Turkish does not have anything like the definite article the in English. For the subject this doesn't matter because the subject is almost always definite anyway - and if it isn't, we can add the number bir as an indefinite article (or some other word with a similar function such as some in English).

However, the object of a transitive verb is often definite and also often indefinite. And often it's important to know whether it is definite or indefinite. Therefore a special method has evolved for distinguishing this: The definite accusative, which is only used for objects that are definite.

This is not the same thing as having a definite article in English:

  • In English, every noun can get the definite article regardless of its function in the sentence. In Turkish, only direct objects can get the definite accusative.
  • In English, the definite article is not needed (and not used!) when there is another word that also makes the noun definite. When we say "this cheese", "that cheese", "my cheese", "your cheese", "Jerry's cheese" etc., then we don't use the definite article the even though cheese is definite in all these cases. But in Turkish, in the corresponding situations, when the noun is a direct object we must use the definite accusative.

Examples:

  • Ben peynir yerim. - I eat (some) cheese. (Direct object but not definite.)
  • Ben peyniri yerim. - I eat the cheese. (Direct object and definite.)
  • Ben senin peyniri yerim. - I eat your cheese. (Direct object and definite. English doesn't use the definite article because it's redundant.)
  • Iyi peynir eski. - Good cheese is old. (Subject and not definite.)
  • Bu peynir eski. - This cheese is old. (Subject and definite. No definite accusative because it's not a direct object.)
  • Peynir eski. - The cheese is old. (As it's a subject we must guess whether it's definite or indefinite. Since being old is not a defining property of cheese, the sentence must be talking about some special cheese, so it's definite. But formally we can't see this in the Turkish sentence.)

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jameszhou13

Thank you so much for your incredibly thorough replies in this thread! I had to upvote the posts you were replying to just so your posts could get more exposure.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChiBegam

"Ben senin peynir yerim." is also true, & have meaning, Isn't it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johaquila

I don't know (yet). Maybe it means "I eat (some) of your cheese" or "I eat a cheese of yours". Or maybe it's not even grammatical. I hope a native speaker will comment on this.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/erolulusoy

The right one is: Ben senin peynirini yerim.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Akash_Polyglot

What does "ni" implies in "peynirni"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AhmetFratG

peynir means just cheese but peyniri means the cheese


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaggieSamuels

Why is the ben first here when it was second in the previous question? Before the answer was that 'Ben s(h)ekeri yerim' would sound funny to a Turkish person, but wouldn't 'Ben peyniri yerim' sound funny for the same reason?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

they are both equally correct, they emphasize different things. I think you haven't read the explanations on the previous sentence carefully. I wrote

"if you have an accusative object, you can place the subject after it to emphasize that it was THIS PERSON who made the action. For example, if somebody asks "Who ate the sugar?" it would be very awkward to say "Ben şekeri yedim" or "şekeri yedim." You should say "Şekeri ben yedim.""

This means, you use "ben peyniri yerim" when you are emphasizing WHAT (peyniri) you eat, and "peyniri ben yerim" when you are emphasizing WHO (you) ate the cheese.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MaggieSamuels

Hmm, okay. I find myself always defaulting to if one things is true the other is false, but this makes much more sense now. Turkish has a lot to do with emphasis and where it's placed!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShahinShah6

How can we use peyniri as possessive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

As a subject :) "Peyniri iyi" would be "His/Her/Its cheese is good" :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ChiBegam

"Peyniri iyi" is "The cheese is good", isn't it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

Nope, "Peynir iyi" = "The cheese is good."

"Peyniri iyi" = "His/Her/Its cheese is good."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ShahinShah6

Hi,can you tell me the grammer rules of to be in Turkish please?thanks.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hadiyeh5

Hooof what a taugh language


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/steffostrettz

What does the i at the end of peynir indicate?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyNurington

The -i at the end indicates accusative case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/steffostrettz

Thanks :)

Is it always -i or does it depend on the previous vowel?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LadyNurington

It depends on vowel harmony.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dosAidos

Does the Turkish accusative case happen as the German one?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shaydonsbear

Also not exactly because in Turkish, you only change to the accusative if it is definite, whereas you always do in German, whether it's den, einen, or just an adjective preceding it.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

often, but not always. there are some verbs that require different cases in German and Turkish


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/umarosm111

what is accusative and nominative case in simple words


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johaquila

The nominative 'verbs' the accusative.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/multilingt

If you read the lessen notes for this section it explains very well and tells you all of the vowel harmony endings and some consonant mutations.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Baseln

Hi, where can i find those lesson notes, am confused. I use the Android app, and i am not even sure how are you going to reply to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

You can't read the notes and tips on the Android app :-(. I usually use the app too, so I have to go to the website every once in a while to read the tips and notes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jmgoss

Thank you! I just asked this question on a different exercise. I guess I need to sign in on a computer. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

You can go to the website on your Android; you just have to use a browser app.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Akash_Polyglot

From where i can find tips and notes..in websitr


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/runningdream

How do we know when to add i to the end, rather than ı ? I'm guessing the answer is vowel harmony, but could someone explain to me what that is exactly?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/multilingt

You are correct, it is vowel harmony. a undotted and e dotted (duolingo teaches it slightly differently, I think they call it rounded and unrounded). Anyway: A undotted vowel always go together; a, ı, o, u E dotted vowels always go together; e, i, ö, ü (see the pattern?)

For instance if the last vowel in the word is an a, the ending vowel if one is needed would be ı (elma -? elmalar -> elmaları). If the last vowel is e, you would use an i (kedi -> kediler -> kedileri).

If you begin to look for these patterns you will see this is a very, very consistent, foundational rule of the language.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/runningdream

Tesekkur ederim!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/tu.8zPhLD72zzoZN

Careful. There are more possible endings. The last vowel in the word is looked at. Only e and i get -i ending and only a and ı get -ı ending.

The o and u get -u ending and ö and ü get -ü ending. If there is no consonant at the end of the word, then a -y- is inserted between the word and the ending. https://www.duolingo.com/comment/9041808


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TobyBartels

Linguists call this difference back and front vowels. Rounded and unrounded mean something different (specifically, the other thing that matters in four-part vowel harmony).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/el_ritardo

Does anyone know a good explanation of turkish verb conjugation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

For now I would just try to memorize the forms. You are going to get a lot more of this later in the tree and it is taught there :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fayez993112

what is difference between accusative and plural . when do we use ler or lar instead of use the accusative .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johaquila

Accusative and plural have nothing to do with each other:

  • Plural means more than one.
  • Accusative is for something that the verb operates on (direct object). Example in English: "The prosecutor [= subject] accuses the defendant [= direct object / accusative]."
  • Definite (e.g. the house, the houses) and indefinite (e.g. a house, houses) is another category that must be understood together with plural and accusative. The Turkish accusative is also called definite accusative because it's only used with definite direct objects.

In many languages you must always use the plural when there is more than one thing or person, and you must always use the accusative for direct objects. In Turkish this is not the case, and that can make it confusing. Similarly, in many languages you must always distinguish definite and indefinite, but again in Turkish this is not the case.

I am still learning the language myself, but this is how I have understood it so far:

  • There are plural forms (most often formed using -ler, -lar) for more words than in most other languages, but we don't always have to use them. For example, often it is enough to use a plural personal pronoun (biz, siz, onlar), and certain other words can be put in plural form to stress the plural, but it is not necessary. Example: "They eat" can be translated as "Onlar yerler" or as "Onlar yer". We can also drop the personal pronoun, but then we must use the plural form of the verb: "Yerler".
  • The rules for when to use plural forms and when/how to indicate definite/indefinite are different for subjects and for direct objects.
  • For a subject (the thing or person that 'verbs', i.e. does something indicated by the verb) we don't have to indicate definite/indefinite, though we can optionally use bir (or presumably a number or quantifier) implying indefiniteness or a demonstrative adjective (bu/bunlar, şu/şunlar, o/onlar) implying definiteness.
  • For a plural subject we must use the plural form of at least one word. Usually it's a noun or personal pronoun, but if there is no noun or personal pronoun we can indicate the plural on the verb instead, and if there is no verb we can indicate it on the adjective taking its place.
  • For a subject, indicating definite/indefinite is optional.
  • For a direct object (the thing or person that/who is 'verbed', i.e. that/who is operated on by the verb) it is important to know whether it is definite or indefinite.
  • For a definite direct object we must use the accusative and cannot use the plural.
  • For an indefinite direct object we cannot use the accusative but must use the plural where appropriate.

This is so complicated that we need examples. As we have not learned everything yet, the following may contain some mistakes, but I am sure that some native speaker of Turkish will correct them:

Let's make sentences about a cat or many cats (subject) eating a mouse or many mice (object).

Turkish for cat is kedi, plural kediler. The definite accusative for this is kediyi, plural kedileri, but we won't need this because in our examples the cats are always the subject, not the direct object. Turkish for mouse is fare, plural fareler. The definite accusative is fareyi, fareleri.

  • A cat eats a mouse: Kedi fare yer.
  • A cat eats mice: Kedi fare yer.
  • The cat eats a mouse: Kedi fare yer.
  • The cat eats mice: Kedi fare yer.
  • A cat eats the mouse: Kedi fareyi yer.
  • The cat eats the mouse: Kedi fareyi yer.
  • A cat eats the mice: Kedi fareleri yer.
  • The cat eats the mice: Kedi fareleri yer.
  • Cats eat a mouse: Kediler fare yer[ler].
  • Cats eat mice: Kediler fare yer[ler].
  • The cats eat a mouse: Kediler fare yer[ler].
  • The cats eat mice: Kediler fare yer[ler].
  • Cats eat the mouse: Kediler fareyi yer[ler].
  • The cats eat the mouse: Kediler fareyi yer[ler].
  • Cats eat the mice: Kediler fareleri yer[ler].
  • The cats eat the mice: Kediler fareleri yer[ler].

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johaquila

Here is how I make sense of the definite accusative: When the cat just eats "a mouse" or "mice", then in Turkish the mouse or mice are not so much an object to the verb but rather modify it: "The cat mouse-eats". Something similar exists in English as well: "The cat is eating mouse. The hunter is hunting wild pig. The waiter is laying table." The difference is that in English these forms of expressing it are relatively rare, but in Turkish they are obligatory. This is why the Turkish accusative isn't used so often and implies definiteness.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TheGrahamCable

Thanks for this great summary. I found a couple of mistakes though. The parts about the plurals in the statements

  • For a definite direct object we must use the accusative and cannot use the plural.
  • For an indefinite direct object we cannot use the accusative but must use the plural where appropriate.

are false (and are contradicted by many of the examples). The parts about plurals have been switched around and should be paired the other way.
So it should read:

  • For a definite direct object, we must use the accusative suffix and must use the plural suffix where appropriate.
  • For an indefinite direct object, we cannot use the accusative suffix and cannot use the plural suffix.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/raisnawaz

In urdu we say 'paneer'


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fuadfm11

Why do we say 'peyniri' not 'peynirli' like the example with the orange !!!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

"portakal" is "orange" in the nominative case. There was no extra -l being added.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fazliddin12

Merhaba. Tesekkurer☺


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TWilkinson93

I think it would help if we could use this sentence in its meaning, versus the literal translation. I know it literally translates to "I eat the cheese" but its saying "I am eating cheese".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Suli123abbc

do you pronounce letters in Turkish like american english


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LanguageFluent

I was wondering what the differwnce is between peynir and peyniri. Sorry if this question was already answered.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/yusufsatri1

Is this word used when someone asking about who is eating the aplle? And we answer "ben elmayi yerim."?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mohamedAbd794224

يجب تشغيل خاصيه الصوت وكذلك السماح بكتابه الكلمه الخطأ


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sondos_diab

That pronunciation is incorrect, The correct pronunciation is " painer" like that.. Turkish people say it like that


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/inferior

Does it mean something like "What do you mean? I eat THE CHEESE" (with disgust in ones tone of voice). Please reply. I need help in this one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/martin91999

Can't see why this is Ben peyniri yerim, when a few questions ago it was Şekeri ben yerim.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RAGHAD12158

Why it is the cheese not cheese


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Heather35810

I English we would not use the before the noun - we would say I eat cheese or I eat meat


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ramielsawy

I know it's not related to that lesson but can I say "Ben peniri yer" as I have already specified that it is me eating using the "Ben" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

You have to use the personal ending on the verb. It would be similar to saying "He go to the store" in English. It is just wrong :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ramielsawy

Thank you for your answer, so what about "Fareler peniri yer" ? (mice eat the cheese)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

That is perfect :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ramielsawy

then what about "onlar peniri yer" ? :) they eat the cheese


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

Perfectly fine. You should check out a verb conjugation chart.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/HanifMuamm

How do I know when to add the?? Does it have the letter 'i' at the end of the word? Like.. Cheese is peynir and The Cheese is peyniri...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

Check out this post for an explanation of when to use accusative case: https://www.duolingo.com/comment/7738396


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/peepeegirl100

It makes no sense "i eat the cheese" it can either be "i eat cheese" or "i ate the cheese"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johaquila

This comment is a bit puzzling. Maybe it has to do with the fact that the most natural English translation is actually "I am eating the cheese"? (The sentence doesn't have a Turkish equivalent of the progressive aspect, but English uses that a lot more than most other languages.) But there are still situations when "I eat the cheese" is correct without any doubt:

  • Whenever we have bread and cheese for dinner, this is what happens: My sister eats the bread. I eat the cheese.

On the other hand, your two proposed sentences are not correct translations of the Turkish sentence:

  • "I eat cheese" doesn't take into account that peyniri is definite/accusative. This would only be a correct translation of "Ben peynir yerim".
  • "I ate cheese" is the wrong tense (simple past). There is nothing in the Turkish sentence that indicates past tense, and I am not aware that marking past tense is optional in Turkish.

https://www.duolingo.com/profile/noor149

Turkish language is so hard and confused


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/PakPolyGlot

Paneer پنیر . As we call it in Urdu. There are many words in Urdu which originate from Turkish. I am sure I will come across many Turkish words which I already use in my daily life with a little bit different pronunciation.

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