"Akşam yemeği zamanı."

Translation:It is dinner time.

March 26, 2015

41 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ch940936

Ok so with multiple compound words in the word, each additional compound further modified the first word? I.e. here it's "food time, [of the] evening", "dinner time." And is that why the last two words are in the accusative case?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ektoraskan

It's not in the accusative case. Although, for those words, the accusative would look the same. The accusative ending is "ı, i, u, ü" (depending on the vowel harmony) and if the word ends in a vowel, you insert an additional "y", so it's easier to pronounce. But since the words Yemek and Zaman don't end in a vowel, it's not the case here, so the accusative forms would be: Yemeği and Zamanı, indeed. Now, the possessive 3rd person suffix is also "ı, i, u, ü"; however, if the word ends in a vowel, this time we add an "s" as a helper. So for the words Yemek and Zaman, you get "Yemeği" and "Zamanı", but if the word was something like "pencere" (window), for instance, you would get "Penceresi" for the possessive, while its accusative form would be "Pencereyi". I'm not sure how much sense I've just made. If I've confused you further, let me know.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alex.nn

Unrelated to the original question but related to your very comprehensive answer: "ı, i, u, ü" For the possessive 3rd pers, if the word ends in a vowel we add "s" as buffer; For the accusative, if the word ends in a vowel we use "y" as buffer. If the accusative comes after an already added suffix, the buffer consonant is "n". Is this correct?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ektoraskan

Correct. And the same rule goes for the dative. Also, after an already added suffix, all the cases (acc, dat, loc, abl) require n as a buffer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/rehamayman

What about:akşamin yemeği zamani?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ektoraskan

"akşam yemeği" is a set phrase. It's not a meal owned by the evening, so no need a genitive on 'akşam'.

You could say "akşam yemeğinin zamanı" though, which would mean: the time of dinner.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ex_contributor

yes! This is called an "isim tamlaması" //genitive construction


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JamesTWils

So, the genitive construction refers to the compound word, without a suffix on the first word, rather than the possessive construction with the suffix on the possessor?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucaturilli

Both are genitive construction(isim tamlaması). The one with possessor suffix is called a definite noun compound(belirtili isim tamlaması) and the one without that suffix is called a indefinite noun compound(belirtisiz isim tamlaması).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Onnodb

Minor nitpick, but I guess that the literal translation should be "time of the (food of the (evening)) "? Otherwise I'm confused by the 'stacking order' of those words :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/duobetty

It's more like a compound noun : evening-meal-time


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/j.wilder

What part of this Turkish sentence translates to "It is"? I thought if we wanted to say "It is" we had to begin the sentence with "O"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ektoraskan

You would use "o" to refer to something specific. If you used "o" in this sentence, it would mean something like "THAT ONE is dinner time" or something. The "it" in the English sentence is called a dummy pronoun. It doesn't refer to anything specific, it just the plays the role of the subject in the sentence, because English requires that we use a subject at all times. Turkish, on the other hand, is in fancy terms a pro-drop language, which means the subject can be omitted. Because there are specific endings for each person (I, you, we, they etc), the subject of a sentence can be hidden if it's obvious in the context.

Also, Turkish doesn't use "is" very often. It's -dır. So you could technically say "Akşam yemeği zamanıdır", but please don't. It's no longer used in such simple sentences. (We have a guide on the suffix -dır [https://www.duolingo.com/comment/8649151] in the grammar portal, so you can check that out some time.)

So that leaves us with a sentence that doesn't need a subject and that has "is" as its verb, which we just don't use. So a noun phrase, let's call it "XYZ", with a full stop at the end can be interpreted as "it is XYZ".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/j.wilder

Very informative, thank you! I can spot dummy pronouns in other languages I've studied like Arabic, but I never realized that English had them as well


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sherwood4242

İ was wondering about the "it is" as well. İ guess that's it like some parent walking into the children's room and saying "dinner time". Everyone knows what is intended so there's no reall need to say "it's dinner time".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/belma332

I am wonder is this just a frase, without real sentance? Which word have accusative sufix, and which one have possesive? And how would you translate this... why not like - evening is a dinner time? Akşam, in this case significate smtg else, like it is evening so it is dinner... will sabah yemegi zamani mean it is breakfast time :-D :-D


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucaturilli

It is breakfast time: Kahvaltı zamanı.

It is dinner time: Akşam yemeği zamanı.

Evening is the dinner time: akşam, akşam yemeği zamanıdır.

Nothing in 'Akşam yemeği zamanı.' has accusative case. 'Yemeği' has a possesive suffix. And yes, it is more like a phrase or incomplete sentence (Şimdi akşam yemeği zamanı. - It is time for dinner at the moment.)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MohammadMa861704

Thank you, you gave the perfect answer that made me open the comments section


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Nishmati

Just to double check: Akşam yemeği zamanı literally means "Evening-meal-time" (Aka "it's dinner time) While Akşamın yemeğinin zamanı would literally mean "The time of the meal of the evening", right?

Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DallaLiyly

So, to clarify, is "akşam yemeği zamanı" a noun compound nested inside a noun compound? I.e., there is no possessor/possessed genitive structure here, right?

After reading the comments, the only way I can see how this can make sense is if I parse it like this:

[[akşam yemeği] zamanı]


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucaturilli

Yes, that is how it is analyzed.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikKaufma2

There's a thread here that talks about this concept.

Look for the question posted by lallamaflamenca


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ErikKaufma2

So yeah, it's interesting how we are creating two compound nouns here without any '-in' indication of a possessor.

evening (akşam) secretly owns food (yemeği), while evening food (akşam yemeği) secretly owns time (zamani) to create 'dinner time' (akşam yemeği zamani)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucaturilli

Yes, it is and you're welcome.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ron97978

How would I determine that the meaning is "It is dinner time" rather than "The dinner time" or just "dinner time" Cheers


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Hello Ron

How would I determine that the meaning is "It is dinner time" rather than "The dinner time" or just "dinner time" Cheers

"Akşam yemeği", is a set phrase. It can be used without the "time" aspect.

The time component makes the phrase rigid. I prefer an elastic time scale.

My personal opinion only.

Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mariane584083

Hilmi i can imagine the situation where a mother/father says to her/his children "it is six o'clok, it is dinner time!". In this lesson we have no idea of the context. That makes it difficult to understand why "akşamin yemeği zamani" is tranlated by 'it is dinner time". Ektoraskan tries to explain it in his comment but ....it is not quite lighting. What do you think?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Hello Mariane

"Akşam yemeği zamanı." Translation: It is dinner time.

Hilmi i can imagine the situation where a mother/father says to her/his children "it is six o'clok, it is dinner time!". In this lesson we have no idea of the context. That makes it difficult to understand why "akşamin yemeği zamani" is tranlated by 'it is dinner time". Ektoraskan tries to explain it in his comment but ....it is not quite lighting. What do you think?

Yes we do have context.

Noun compound, "akşam yemeği", memorise this as a set phrase --> "dinner time." Zaman (noun) "time" + -ı possessive suffix.

It literally means the time of the dinner. That "time" is not specified is irrelevant. My other correct English answer was, "dinner time." I deleted "it is" & Duo accepted just "dinner time."

French tank museum. Saumur Armorer Museum: The history of the tank. Musée des Blindés

Turkish loan word from the French language, müze --> museum.

I watched a tank restoration documentary with French subtitles.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mariane584083

Ron, i like your question because it makes me work! See you soon, i try to find an answer.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gluadys

Could "Akşam yemeği zamanı." mean simply "dinner" as well as "dinner time"? If not, does one leave off zamanı to say "dinner"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

You would have to remove "zaman" for it to just mean "dinner." "zaman" means "time" :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EhabMohey92

why not "Akşam yemeğinin zamanı" ?? If it is wrong, would "Akşam yemeğinin zamanı" mean anything ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lucaturilli

It would be 'the time of dinner'.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

"Akşam yemeği zamanı." Translation: It is dinner time.

&

"Dinner time."

Correct other English answer accepted by Duo.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LisetteKol1

could you also say:" it is time for dinner?"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sandrayany

"it is time for dinner" this answer wasn't accepted???


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/sandrayany

"It is dinner time" this was not accepted????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/hermijames11

If zamanı means time for then what is tge purpose of Turkish word için?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Hello duerreozge11

If zamanı means time for then what is tge purpose of Turkish word için?

İçin --> "for."

İçin --> word class; (postposition) (noun) & (verb)

Genitive, singular of iç (noun)

İçmek (verb)

Don't worry.

You will learn all of these as you progress up the Turkish learning tree.

Thank you.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jansen0202

Why 'The dinner time' was not accepted


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Hello Jansen

Why 'The dinner time' was not accepted?

"Akşam yemeği zamanı."

"Dinner time." Correct other English answer accepted by Duo.

Please memorise it as; "dinner time." A set phrase.

It's a noun compound & the -i is not the accusative case suffix.

Akşam yemeği --> dinner time (noun compound)

Zaman + -ı 3rd person possessive suffix --> "it is the time of" --> something.

Something being --> "dinner time."

Please read Ektoraskan PLUS comments & some of the 64 other comments too.

Thank you.

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