Is there much of a difference between "Bizim ördeklerimiz var" and "Ördekler bizde"?
a lot. The first one expresses possession, that we possess/own ducks. The second one just implies that the ducks are with us - this is also true in English, you don't really say "I have the ducks" to imply you own the ducks.
Literally, bizde translates to "at us" since it's locative. The ducks are located "at" where we are: they are with us: we have them.
Why does this expression require the definite article 'the'? Is there a different way to say 'We have ducks'? Something like 'we have ducks in our neighborhood' - we don't own them like Selcen mentioned, but they're also not definitive.
Words like "bizde," "sizde," "bende," etc., seem to just automatically include the definite article.
The locative pronouns like bizde and sizde actually function very differently from "var" and "yok." I'm not sure if you can use both simultaneously, but if you look at Selcen's comment above you'll see that the possessive pronoun being paired with "var" indicates possession, meaning you own the object. I believe if you say "Ördeklerimiz var" it doesn't necessarily have to mean you have the ducks with you - it just means you own ducks. "Ördekler bizde," however, merely implies that you have the ducks with you - it doesn't mean you own or possess them. Do you see the difference now?
I believe "Ördeklerimiz var" is a little ambiguous in that it can also mean the ducks are with you in addition to possessing them, but I'm not entirely sure about that. It would be greatly appreciated if a native could confirm if that double meaning exists, and if it is at all possible to use both together. :)
Personally, I'd just say the required "the" is simply how it works. I'm not sure of any other reason why it would be needed other than that. Again, a native's explanation would be appreciated. :)
I just got an example that might help!
Here's the sentence: Onda üç kitap var.
It uses the locative pronoun along with var - there just aren't any possession prefixes. So I'm assuming you can use either the genitive or locative case along with var, but not both at the same time?
Again, confirmation would be nice. XD
i guess"onda uc kitap var" literaly means three books exist by him (not necessarily his books) while "onun uc kitabi var" means three of his books exist (not necessarily with him now). One sentence states location the other possesion. so i guess "onda benim uc kitabim var" would mean "he has three of my books" (i gave them to him but they are still mine). a confirmation/correction would be nice.
I still do not understand why the definite article is implied in this form. Just because you have ducks with you does not require them to be definite particular ducks. Turkish has no articles so how does it require English to use them? Ördeklerim var implies ownership, what if you found some ducks and don't own them but have them with you trying to find the owner, you could say I have ducks. I need to know who they belong to. Which surely is best expressed with öredekler benimde not ördeklerim var.
why is it necessary to use "the" here ,what if I wanted to say we have ducks ? how to say it ?
Can bizde also mean, colloquially, "at our place"? As in "bizde yiyelim." Doesn't that mean "Let's eat at our place"?
Depends on the context. But it may mean 'at our place' of course. For exmaple:
A:(phone call)Ali'nin nerede olduğunu biliyor musun? (Do you know where Ali is?)
B:Evet, Ali bizde. (Yes, Ali is at our place.)
For the sake of the lesson, would this be translated literally as The ducks are with us?
why didn't "the ducks are on us" work? this structure had worked with past sentences
My question is asked up there by other people. It would be cool if a native confirms the aasumptions in the answers. Teşekkürler in advance
Yes I agree ramielsawy ıt would be good if we could get some official confirmations just so we get it right, I cant get my head round these ones!!
There is really no distinction between definite and indefinite here; either should be accepted. Either "we have the ducks," or "we have ducks."
There are pretty big implications in terms of meaning in both English and Turkish actually. Read Selcen's comment above. I agree with it and I am a native English speaker. :)
"Ordekler bizde" it suppose to mean that the ducks are with us or we are at the ducks but I guess the 1st sentence is more reasonable .. but I don't think it means we have got the ducks
It definitely means "We have the ducks." :)
In theory, it can mean the first thing you said as well if you were to use colloquial English.
Where is the ducks?==> Ördekler bizde what do you have?===> Bizim ördeklerimiz var