https://www.duolingo.com/RandallMiles

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

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When I started using Duolingo over a year ago I thought it was great. Here was a way to learn to read other languages at my pace, with no pressure. I also liked that it was game-like and fun.

What made it fun for me was the reward/punishment system. If you made too many mistakes in a lesson, you were “punished” and had to start over. If you completed the lesson without too many mistakes, you were “rewarded” earned points, the fewer mistakes made, the bigger your “rewarded”: more points earned. If you made no mistakes, you earned the maximum “reward”: 13 points and a prize, a lingot. However, at some point in the intervening year, that was taken away. Now you just keep trying until you get seventeen questions correct. If you get an answer wrong, you are “punished” by having to answer two more questions. It doesn’t matter if it takes you 17 questions or 50 questions to get 17 right, you get 10 points. So, we have gone from a reward/punishment system to a punishment system. Since you know you will always get those ten points eventually they don’t really trigger the reward center in your brain. Before the change I would often not really want to do my daily DL and have to convince myself to do one lesson. Then I’d only miss one question and get 12 points, I’d think “Cool, I’ll do another” and before I’d know the hour was up and I’d have earned 80 or more points. Now, on those days, I do the one lesson, get 10 points, and think “meh, I’m done.”

Another thing I liked was that we were encouraged to practice: practicing earned you more points and prizes. I have to keep practicing lessons I have already done, or I lose vocabulary, especially recall vocabulary. What I used to do, was, after completing a skill set, do ten practice lessons in the skill set. Then, after completing several skill sets, do forty or fifty general practice sets. This would do three things: strengthen my vocabulary, both recognition and recall; advance my level by earning me points; and further reward me with the possibility of earning lingots. That, too, has been taken away. Now, not only do you not earn any lingots for a perfect score, an algorithm determines how many points you earn depending on how much it determines you need to do that practice. There is still the maximum of 10 points, but it can be as low as 2 points. So, I am actually “punished” for practicing. I recently did a practice exercise where it took me 28 questions to get 17 correct, which tells me I needed that practice badly, however I earned only 7 points. If that weren’t bad enough, when DL tells me I need to strengthen a skill I sometimes only get 7 points for doing so. It really is discouraging. In fact I find that now that I am discouraged from practicing I make more mistakes when I am doing new lessons. Not, I suppose, that it matters, since you get the same reward no matter how well or badly you do the lesson.

I recall reading in the Discussions where Luis wrote that this was done to discourage people from just doing low level exercises to rack up points (I tried finding where I saw that, but good luck finding anything in the Discussions. That is another issue altogether). First, as a former teacher, I do not see why you would want to discourage any learner in any way. Second, for those of us who are adult learners, we are here with many different goals and racking up points any way possible may be some learners goal. It is not my goal, it’s probably not most people’s goal, but doesn’t make it wrong, and it does Duolingo no harm, so why thwart it? My goal is to learn to read the languages I frequently encounter at work. I have little or no interest in the spoken language, which my wife and some friends find odd, but there it is, I only want to read (quite frankly, if DL required listening and speaking I would not continue). In order to do that I need to be strong on recognition, which takes practice, a lot of practice. And, like most people, I am more likely to practice if I have an incentive beyond getting better at what I am practicing, such as an immediate reward. Extra points and lingots provided that immediate reward.

Back to Luis discouraging people, he seemed to indicate that this was done to stop students from racking up the assigned number of points with little or no effort. From this I assume he is referring to high-school and middle-school language classes where DL is used as one of the teaching tools. For those learners, and I know since I used to teach ninth grade, this is a valid concern. But I am not sure that concern outweighs what I see as the negative impact on adult learners. If I may offer a suggestion: have two user interfaces, one for students and one for adult learners. The student interface would, of course, be the current interface. The adult-learner interface would return to 10-13 point reward system for all exercises, new or practice, and maybe even lingot awards for perfect scores. Adult learners could be allowed to choose which interface they use, while students would be locked in the interface chosen by their teacher. For me, returning to the 10-13 point reward system would make DL fun again, which in turn would make me a more engaged learner again.

In short: please return to a more punishment AND reward system.

Thank you for your time,

Randall Miles

3 years ago

61 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/olimo
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It's funny how people are motivated by different things. I remember tons of posts asking to remove the heart system. Now it is removed, and there are posts to get it back :-)

Personally, I like the new system better. When I got the strength bar on the website, I began to prefer practicing there rather than in the app. Maybe that's because my daily goal is 30XP now, and I have to do three lessons/practice sessions anyway, whether I get 10 or 13 points per session.

I wish there were some game with the lingots. Now they just accumulate, and I don't care about them at all.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7
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Same, I did not thrive with the hearts system. Once they removed it, I started venturing into areas in which I was sorely lacking. Once I started getting 3XP instead of 10 though in skills I did not feel proficient in, I stopped venturing into those areas again. I'm highly motivated by external factors. It is just what I feel is rewarding and so it generates forward momentum.

It does not help that I don't trust that the penalized points for review necessarily has the same motive as previous features. With those features, they were thoroughly tested. And though Luis announced a few weeks of testing had occurred, there was a discrepency compared with other feature testruns. Those had tags for a few weeks, this one had a tag for one week. Pinkodoug (who tracks the A/B test tags), brought up this fact and Luis took the announcement down. I don't know for certain what happened behind all of this, but I'm not comforted. Now this feature is back to A/B test groups, but I'm wary after the feature's odd start. With previous features that I didn't like, I would just tell myself that more people found it helpful than not, it was some comfort. As much of a hiccup it had to start, and as much as it is a hindrance to my motivation now, this is the source of my lack of comfort.

I think of lingots as "thank you" tokens. I love getting and giving them out. A game would be fun though. :D

Please note that I've edited this post in acknowledgement of the information I'm lacking for certain conclusions I drew in the earlier version.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist
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Winner chicken dinner right c'here. They were going to change it anyway, whether or not data showed that. But they couldn't just "do that", they tagged an A/B test on it and hoped that would work. But, Luis was impatient and thought it would slide if they rolled out a week early. Fail.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/writchie4
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They were going to change it anyway, whether or not data showed that. But they couldn't just "do that", they tagged an A/B test on it and hoped that would work.

Do either you or Usagi have any evidence that this test did not perform well? Regardless of whether the team wanted a test to turn out a certain way, it's a big jump from "the test length was shorter than normal" to "the team is purposefully implementing a bad change that goes against the test results to appease some lazy teachers that can't think of a better way to grade their students' progress".

There's certainly a valid discussion to be had about the merits of a system that gives less XP for practicing old material, but frankly, this speculation that the team used a fake AB test as justification to implement a feature they wanted to anyway rings like a hollow conspiracy theory to me. It's disrespectful to the team members that have worked hard to improve the site to assume such a thing without having real evidence outside of "I don't like the change and the test was too short and Luis was off a little bit when he talked about the test length".

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist
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I never said it performed poorly or was a bad change, Wade. I was talking about the feature itself, which we know is part of the transition to watching how we learn. I'm fine with the change, I prefer it, and I don't care about the test length. I was only talking about the fact that it was made to seem as if it lasted a couple of weeks (the norm) when it just barely reached a week.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/writchie4
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Wait, are you not suggesting that the team was going to implement the feature regardless of how the test turned out when you say "They were going to change it anyway, whether or not data showed that."? It sounds to me (and please correct me if I'm wrong) like you're claiming the AB test was a charade and that you think the team was going to ignore the results and do whatever they wanted to in the first place.

That's exactly the assumption I have an issue with. The entire motivation behind A/B testing is to acknowledge that developers are naturally biased when designing an application, and to remove that bias by relying on data from real users' experiences instead of the dev's intuition. Any implication that the team would ignore the test results and go with their pre-defined "agenda" would render the A/B testing pointless, and is hard for me believe. It's a big accusation to throw around without evidence.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7
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I'm removing my comment until I feel I can write it more accurately.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/olimo
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Yeah, I also give lingots for helpful comments, mostly in sentence discussions.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OneAndOnlyJosh

But when the person whose comment is helpful already has 1000+ lingots, they simply don't want them.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/olimo
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Wow, I've never saw a comment with 1000+ lingots!

Anyway, a lingot, just like an upvote or a "thank you", will make no harm :-)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/AlexisLinguist
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I think Cap was saying that the person who made the comment had 1000 lingots. :) But I have seen 1000 lingots on a comment (a friend did it ha ha). :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OneAndOnlyJosh

AlexisLinguist is right. I did mean that the person who made the comment had 1000+ lingots.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Vedun
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I agree. I don't get all that negativity about the new system - the heart system was orders of magnitude more frustrating.

Why do you need lingots as a reward anyway? They accumulate pretty quickly and there's nothing much you can do with them.

And why do you need those bonus points? They are mere integers, levels are also empty numbers, not directly corresponding with knowledge.

What really matters is how much you get to learn, and the new system makes learning easier.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RandallMiles
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So you would be happy if there were no points at all and no levels. You either get an answer right or wrong and move on. That may work well for you, but not for me. I one of those people who need some external positive feedback.

As for the new system making learning easier, I spend less time on DL now because of the new system, so, no, it is not easier for me. As I have posted elsewhere on this thread, there are many different learning styles and motivations. I think trying to accommodate more of them is better than accommodating just one or two.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Vedun
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It's not like I'll be happy if this feature gets removed or I don't want it, it's just that these numbers by themselves mean nothing outside this website.

I get that there are different learning styles, but I always thought getting better at a language is enough motivation in itself.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/susanstory
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I like the new system better. The first time I did the Christmas skill in French, I couldn't finish it because I kept losing all my hearts. After they took the hearts out, I finished the Christmas skill in French, with no problems. I prefer to only get 3 XP, so I won't level up as fast, so people won't think I'm "fluent". I was on level 18 in French, etc. and reset them all to level 0, so people wouldn't be thinking I'm "fluent" and nearly finished the trees. I have a long way to go to finish the trees. I don't feel that I know these languages any worse now that I'm only on level 8, for example in French. Actually, I think I'm on a roll in French now so I can breeze through a few skills, because I already knew this stuff before. It tells me now that I understand 58% of text in French, but I just ignore it.

When I was in school learning French many years ago, we never had any lingots, hearts, or XP points or had any streaks. French was always my favorite class.

In high school, I was late my first day in French class because I got lost in the new building, and had trouble finding my way to the classroom, but the teacher just said, "Better late than never!" He already knew me and was expecting me, because when I was in Junior High, we got to go see the high school and meet the teachers, so, of course, I went to see the French teacher, and told him it was my favorite subject.

I bet my French teacher would have loved this Duolingo. We used to go to the language lab sometimes. It was tape recorders with headphones and he'd record stuff and we had to practise saying stuff. One time I got the headphone wires stuck in my hair when the class was over.

In my booth in the language lab in school there was a red button, which you were supposed to press if you wanted the teacher. Some kid had previously written beside it, to be funny, "Hotline to Moscow", so I was scared to press that button because of that.

Anyway, I absolutely loved French class in school, despite no lingots, XP points, or Streak Freeze.

One good use for knowing how to count in another language is as follows: When I was in high school, in physics class one day the teacher was counting money or something, and the boys were trying to get him mixed up by saying numbers but the teacher kept his cool and just switched to counting in Spanish, which they didn't know.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ketoacidosis
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That is fantastic! Thank you for the story. I also prefer the new system over the hearts system, but I do miss lingots for perfect lessons because I can never hold on to them for too long.

I experienced similar problems in French and Portuguese. Completing some of the lessons took very many attempts and sometimes required resorting to memorizing which answers went with which sentences instead of actually trying to learn. My first time going through the Portuguese course, when it was still in beta, I would have loved to have used the new system because of the inconsistency and lack of acceptable answers in a select few of the lessons. The new system also helps a great deal with the more challenging lessons.

I will definitely have to try counting in another language if an opportunity like that arises.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Oesterreich7
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I completely agree. I personally like the new system a lot better because failing lessons and having to redo them versus doing more questions was a lot more frustrating. The new one feels more positive and I don't mind doing a few more questions rather than redoing a whole lesson for simple typos caused by typing and clicking the enter button too quickly. :P I guess everyone has their own preference. :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rachael.cr3
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I feel like I'm actually practicing more without the hearts system. In trying to fill the strength bar, if the lesson is particularly difficult, I'll wind up repeating the same sentences several times, and you can bet that I won't forget them easily!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Helen_Hohenheim
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Honestly, Duolingo is more fun for me now than with the old system. I did not enjoy losing hearts, especially if the system was at fault (there are still a lot of mistakes in there after all and it really felt unfair to be punished for that). It kinda felt like a flashback to getting bad grades at school and that is not something I desire to experience again in my free time. It also certainly felt like more of a punishment than simply having to do more questions to complete the excercises, knowing that if I work hard, I'll get there eventually. Now I finally feel like the point of the game is learning and not simply losing and winning points. Actually, I do not really care about the points at all - it's nice getting them for sure, and levelling up is a motivation, but the acquirement of knowledge itself has much more value for me.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RandallMiles
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I fully understand what you mean. I, too, got frustrated when I lost hearts due to typos, minor spelling errors, or when DL marked a correct answer wrong. I also understand that for many people learning is their main motivation. Actually it is mine, too. But to be honest: I'm lazy and the fun of being rewarded helps me past that. My suggestion is really not to return to the hearts system, but rather to award more points for better scores in something like the current system. If you finish the exercise in 17 question you get 13 points; in, say, 19 questions, 12 points; 21, 11 points, and after that just the 10 points you get now. Also, since I suggest that adult learners be allowed to choose which interface they want you could continue with the current one. I wouldn't want to take that away from the people who like it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/olimo
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I'm sure they won't make it an option to choose. The system is easier to use without having to choose this and that, compare, then choose again, etc. The reward system is not as easy understood as the options to turn on/off the mic, the speaker, or set an avatar.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/wstockall
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As opposed to an option for the user (student?) to choose, I wonder if they would ever go so far as to do A/B testing on an individual basis to see which learning methods work best for each person.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CharmingTiger
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A very well thought out discussion which highlights valid concerns for some of the recent changes that have taken place with the lesson reward system.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OneAndOnlyJosh

I agree with you. The low points often discourage me from putting in more time on Duolingo than I probably should. In my opinion, the new XP change, while not the end of the world, does more bad than good. I wish that Duolingo could change it.

I believe that the reason that Duolingo changed it are, as you say, to prevent people (specifically school children) from doing low level lessons again for XP. Teachers were giving a minimum level of XP that the student had to get in order to complete his assignment for the day/week. This was a bad decision as the kids could come by XP very easily and it also shows that the teachers were a little ignorant about the real workings of Duolingo. The solution would have been to make the teachers aware of how Duolingo works and not to lower the XP for lower levels/strong lessons.

But, on the other side of the coin, Duolingo was and is only trying to enhance users experience on Duolingo. They probably would't have released it except that their method for "testing" updates to Duolingo was faulty and completed in a much too short of time frame. So a big thumbs up to Luis and the Duolingo staff for effort, but not for method

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RandallMiles
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I agree: BIG thumbs up for Luis and crew for their efforts. What they may have lost sight of is that they are dealing with an enormous variety learning styles and motivations.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PiryatJos
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I was so discouraged by that former way. Silly mistakes can cost momentum. Now they've changed I've been making far more progress. Enjoying myself FAR MORE. In the old system sometimes I'd fail over again and just robot input the answers without any connection to them.

Maybe a choice could be added but I'd stick with current set up.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Klgregonis
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I DEFINITELY prefer the progress bar to the hearts - I have a Kindle Fire which still uses the heart system that I use occasionally, and I find myself peeking WAY more often rather than going with it. At least, with the bars, I can finish a lesson without having to start over a jillion times and without virtually memorizing the sentences. As far as points are concerned - I personally never worried too much about those. If I feel like I need to practice something that hasn't decayed, I just do it. And you do get more points for practicing decayed skills than golden skills. (I don't even know how many points I have at this time in any of the languages I am actively studying.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PiryatJos
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I rarely ever peek now too. It doesn't matter if I get one wrong now because I can just carry one and focus on what's important.

That whole decayed skills getting more points than golden seems so much a silly thing to argue. It's such a big deal. I'm with you. If I want to do a skill I just do it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/olimo
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I think Duolingo wants to encourage learning according to its algorithms. Some time ago, I was a user who learned a lot and practiced everything right away. The decay system did not work for me: nothing ever decayed because I practiced really a lot. So I always had to decide what to practice myself. Now, I move at a much slower pace, and only revise when something decays, and it works like a charm.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sps1919

they should keep the strength bar, but they should reward you if you've finished the lesson within say 20 questions...

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RandallMiles
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Exactly my thinking.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/wildfood
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I never did buy a heart refill and had I done so I would have been below the Lingot poverty line :O

I like the new system. It was depressing making the owl cry all the time!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/IanEvison

Amazingly well thought-out post. You either have been awake far longer than I or have had much more coffee. As an aside, I am fascinated by observing my own learning process. One thing I have observed about the Duolingo system is that what makes it work is the positive addiction I get to it. A downside of this positive and not entirely rational addiction is that I seem to get "stuck" on the particularities of the reward system. I find myself to objecting to any change in the system even if, abstractly considered, I might agree it is better or at least better for the app overall if not for me personally. It feels as if someone were changing the marathon course while I am in the middle of it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RandallMiles
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Thank you. It's not a question of coffee or time awake. I wrote and re-wrote the post over the last week as a Word doc before posting it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/IanEvison

Very well said, however you achieved it. I admire when someone can succinctly lays out the issues and captures a point of view in a way that helps a group have good discussion which it seems we have today. Well done.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/louis.vang
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I asked to bring back the extra xp's (for the not used hearts) and lingot for an error free lesson:

https://www.duolingo.com/comment/7795550

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/007woofwoof
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I concur………..The thrill is gone……….It's like a baseball game where strikes are not counted……I no longer enthusiastically reccommend Duo to my friends…Thanks for explaining so well….Is there any hope?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RandallMiles
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I know what you mean. I used to recommend DL to just about everyone. Not any more. As for hope, I don't know. That depends on Luis and the rest of the DL developers. We'll just have to wait and see.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Jsprwstr
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Here's a thought: make Duo more highly customizable.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HappyEvilSlosh

I actually think this is on the ball. Sure, there are things like hearts/current-system where you don't want to be supporting both so allowing the user to choose probably won't happen. But OTOH for, say, relative frequency of types of questions answered I really don't see a good reason to allow the user to decide for themselves what proportions works best for them instead of the current system where everybody is forced to do what works best for the largest number of people (and if you're not a member of that large number of people then well, though).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Antbutter
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Real punishment is being on the last question with zero hearts remaining and missing a simple question because of a spelling error.. While it might be nice if it was still an option for people who liked it, I am thrilled that the new system finally came to the app. I have been waiting for this since it was implemented on the website.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/markandrew
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The heart system is still used in the mobile apps, for what it's worth.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/olimo
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It is replaced with the progress bar in the last iOS app update.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rspreng

As I understand it, Duo does a bunch of testing and implements the program that results in the most students learning the most of their target language. Duo is not a democracy, and with tens of millions of users, a single voice is pretty much a cry in the wilderness. If one searches back a year or two one can find many, many people that hated the heart (and heart breaking) system. Having been an educator since 1972 (yep, that long) I think I have seen a significant trend to more extrinsic motivation (which I hate) as well as the notion of 'mastery' learning, which means you do and re-do until you get it right (pretty much how we strengthen skills in Duo now). When Duo tried to really 'game things up' with Duelling there was an outcry and thing reverted fairly quickly.

For me the xPs on Duo are like playing cards for toothpicks. I don't care and I don'r keep count. :) Many people are here to learn a language, and many are here, it seems, to rack up points, lingots, levels, and consider completing trees akin to earning a merit badge, hurrying to complete each language with little interest in pursuing it beyond "I finished another tree." I think, and hope, that Duo is channeling its efforts toward assisting the former group. ;)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Usagiboy7
Mod
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Those aren't two clear-cut groups. I like external rewards, but I also took my time on the tree. Once finished, i went back and redid it. I am now doing the reverse tree. Badges are nice, and motivating AND I'm here to learn as much of the language as I can. Is there a hierarchy of who can feel better about themselves for how they learn?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/IanEvison

But I LIKE playing cards for toothpicks! I have fond memories on our family farm of playing very competitive games of hearts with my grandmother and my brother and sister betting with corn kernels we kept in an old cigar box. My good Methodist grandmother never would have allowed betting with money but we became as invested in those corn kernels as though they were gold coins. Of course, in those days I was ready to fight to the death with my siblings over anything....

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/tmcornell

Randall,

I completely, totally agree.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BookWormTY

Honestly, the lingots give you a huge incentive. As for me, I prefer using the timed practice (this is kind of off topic) because instead of giving you 10 points per 17 questions right, it gives you the number of questions answered right out of 20... And there's a time limit too which helps me to think faster and quicker. I have no preference... Both systems work for me. Though, I wish they hadn't gotten rid of the duel mode.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/donna.scha

The hearts are gone on the app? Noooo! I prefer have both systems in place. Yes, there is nothing more frustrating than getting the last question wrong with no hearts left but having to repeat the whole thing again really made me learn. After all it meant that was one of my weaker areas. By the time I could get through it well I really knew the stuff. I like the strength bars too but to be honest the main reason I use the website is to access the translations.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dkrobe
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What are these points? I've just been bumbling along the exercise trail watching the circles turning to gold, and some sneaking back to non gold while I slept. This is the first I've joined a discussion and had to look around to find out how to do it. I know there are numbers next to my handle but have no idea of their significance. Overall, I'm enjoying duolingo, sometimes moving happily forward, usually when brain and body are fresh. Other times I become brain dead and feel very stupid by moving backwards. I often quit the exercise to do something more physical like a half marathon for a rest, ironically, often while listening to Spanish lessons on an old MP3 player. I have no idea if this is the right place for this, or whether anyone will see it, or care. But it felt good! Thanks, dkrobe

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Klgregonis
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The points are one of the gamifications on the site. Lingots are another. The old heart system (for PC users it has been replaced) was another. They're a way to keep people who are only marginally interested in language learning coming back to the site. Same thing with the streak record and the decay of skills turning the little circles to a different color (which are the only things I pay any attention to, even though I know that the streak goes away and LOTS of circles turn color when I travel and choose not to be connected to wifi. They really aren't needed if you are truly interested in language, although they may cause you to choose this site over another.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dkrobe
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Your lengthy record indicates you would know. Thanks! dkrobe

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SparklieSpeak

For lessons, I much prefer the strength bar system, because you have to do extra questions when you make mistakes, so by the time I finish a lesson I know it really well, something I didn't find with the hearts system. I really don't like getting less for revision, though - it makes me feel like I'm wasting my time. Ok, I'm doing it to learn the language, not for the points, but still... What I do now is crash my way through an entire skill then spend plenty of time on the timed practice of that skill, so I really practice it all and get more xp points.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/brigcampbell
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It could probably be argued the strength bar method actually creates more XP than hearts since failing a lesson and repeating is time consuming.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SparklieSpeak

True, but for that part I was talking about revision. If I revise an individual lesson I only get a few points, but if I complete all lessons then revise that skill on timed practice I can get a lot more points. I do prefer the strengthen bar system to the hearts system, but I don't like the less xp for revision system.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Ifphigenia
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Sad to say both your comments and suggestions have been made before but nothing changes , in fact Luis's post disappeared following the adverse comments, I'm not saying they were the cause but that was what happened.

It does seem as if the site is gradually being tilted in the direction of Duo for schools and the independent learners are being bypassed, but maybe that's just my imagination.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/brigcampbell
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Thoughtful post, here's 38 million Lingots. LOL

I like the new version. I find it less annoying. I understand hearts were probably better for those with a gold tree but I think I understand the goal of the new process. It's about keeping students engaged and I mean kids. DL looks very focused on the education market which may make sense.

I will say the entire "gamification" story is total B.S. but DL seems to be a very good tool for gaining a vocabulary. Additionally, I've personally learned much about language in general.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/RandallMiles
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But we all aren't kids. After 8 years of grad school I much like being told how I should learn and being treated like a 15 year-old.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LeIouch

Mr. Burns quote! =D

3 years ago
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