"Köpek kedinin altında."

Translation:The dog is under the cat.

April 2, 2015

34 Comments
This discussion is locked.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alibektas34

In Turkish version, the name of this fable is "Bremen Mızıkacıları".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Matt-T-T

This is so counter intuitive because alti makes me think of altitude


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/EvaSopkova1

think of ALT as "alto" - the LOWEST woman's voice as opposite to soprano in choral music... it may help...


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jsmitten

General question: if sentences like this one would literally translate to "the dog is at the under of the cat," why is there the extra "n" that's added to the location noun? Or did I miss something in the genitive lesson that would explain it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LiliumAgri

The ending on altında is actually -(s)I(n). The s shows up if there is a vowel in the stem. The n shows up if there is a case ending following.

So kedinin alt-ı = the underside of the cat (no vowel in the stem so only -ı)

But kedinin alt-ın-da = under the cat (added a case ending so the n shows up as a buffer)

Also,

kedinin alt-ın-dan = from under the cat

kedinin alt-ın-a = at the underside of the cat

(Less likely to use them but I just want to show that other case endings do the same thing)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ektoraskan

Expanding on Mozkir's answer:

Normal nouns only require a buffer (which is always a Y) when, otherwise, two vowels would clash. Observe:

Araba ; arabaYı ; arabaYa

but

Arabada ; Arabadan ← No need a Y here, as there is no double-vowel problem.

However, if the phrase is a genitive construction like X-[n]in Y-[s]i, you add a buffer consonant (which is an N this time) no matter what.

Jsmitten'in arabasıNı ; Jsmitten'in arabasıNa ← These two make sense in terms of buffer usage.

Jsmitten'in arabasıNda ; Jsmitten'in arabasıNdan ← The buffer usage is not justified here, but it's used for some reason.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/johaquila

Yup. Here is some background knowledge that helps me remember this: The ending -(s)I(n) was once -(s)In (or even -sIn; I am not sure). In Old Turkish it was then pronounced -(s)I with a nasalised I, and I think it is still pronounced like that in some Turkish dialects. But dropping the final n in favour of a nasalisation of the vowel only makes sense if it is really at the end of the word. So the original n is restored when another suffix follows.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/elsker_Csokiii

How is "under you"? for example, the dog is under you - is it altında (köpek senin altında)?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lidorlerden

Explain kedi+nin? Its like the dog is "belong" to the cat? Not phisicley


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

The dog belongs to nothing in this sentence. There is no possessive suffix on dog. There is however a possessive suffix on "alt" :)

"alt (bottom)+ı (3rd p. sing. possessive suffix) +n (suffer n) +da (locative case)

Basically, with this type of postposition, you say "The dog is at the cat's underneath."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Amy897502

The "suffer n" is apropos. :P


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Carolinecl00

I thought 'kedinin' was 'your cat' Since its not, how do I tell the difference in this sentence?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AlexinNotTurkey

"Kedin" = "Your cat"

"Kedinin" ="The cat's/Your cat's"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/shiraenosh

Is it altı like 6??


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alibektas34

Yes, they have the same spelling but do not forget, the original form of the word is "alt".

"Kedinin altı" is the genitive case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lotsofs

How would i say "the dog is under A cat" (but im not sure which cat) as opposed to "under THE cat" (specific cat)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ektoraskan

You can add "bir": Köpek bir kedinin altında.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrunnoHC

Could it be "in the gold", too? If not, how would it be?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ektoraskan

In the gold? "Köpek altında" could probably have that meaning.

But how does "kedi" fit into the sentence then?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrunnoHC

Yes, good point! Sorry, I didn't write that, but I meant just "altında" in general, and not in this specific sentence! Thank you, and also sorry for my "communication failure"!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Mimi12291

i don't know i can't memorize those postpo. in that lessons so anyone can help me with nice simple way to memorize it easily ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yomalyn

You can try joining memrise.... There is a course specifically for DuoLingo vocabulary, including a set for the postpositions. You can find it HERE :-)

If you've never heard of memrise, it's a way to drill vocabulary (with a break from grammar) and users can suggest memory tricks for every word. You can browse through all the tricks and select the one that works best for you... or add your own. For example: Duo's alternative answers are shown altında (credit: tgloyer)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Shamshoomi

The link is not working. Can you repost it?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Anna694674

From these comments I take it that "altında" is a 'type 1 postposition' according to the Tips and Notes for this lesson. Why was it "Ev kar altında" (without genitive ending for kar) in the previous question, then?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Yomalyn

Yes, "alt"/"altında" is Type 1. I'll link you back to that other sentence-- "Ev kar altında". The MODs are saying that kar (and su) are irregular, so they don't usually take genitive case endings for postpositions. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Jennie721026

Why is “the cat”spelt kedinin?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/alibektas34

Let me try to explain in a different way. Think the opposite of under. It is "on top of". The preposition "of" gives a sense of possessive pronoun. Suppose the opposite of "on top of" would be something like "under the bottom of". So, this way "kedinin altı" would make more sense I believe.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MrHilmiNevzat

Hello meemalifaaeen

I am underwater. -> "Suyun altındasın." -> You are underwater.

Please surface for some air!

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