"The duck is on the elephant."
Translation:Ördek filin üzerinde.
Is there a difference in usage between "üzerinde" and "üstünde"?
Consider an English sentence like "The duck is on the elephant's back" -- there you can see that "elephant's" is genitive because the back "belongs to" the elephant.
Most Turkish location words work similarly; "üzeri" is a noun meaning something like "top", and so the duck is "on the elephant's top": filin (elephant's) üzerinde (on-it's-top).
Similarly, something like "between the books" (kitapların arasında) is in Turkish "at the books' area-between", and "in front of the house" (evin önünde) is "at the house's area-in-front, at the house's front" -- all with genitive.
Thank you for all the answers. So, that poses the question: how do you differentiate in Turkish between "There is a bird on (top of) the elephant" and "There is a bird above the elephant"? And let's assume there are birds both on the elephant and above it. How do you point them out differently? Thanks.
normally we wouldn't differentiate. If we really want to (as in your case, where there are two), you can say "yukarı taraftaki" for the one that's above. So
"filin üstündeki kuş, yukarı tarafındaki kuştan daha küçük": "The bird on the elephant is smaller than the one above it."
But this is really when you just want to differentiate. Normally it is not really common to say "filin yukarı tarafındaki kuş", we would also just say üstünde or üzerinde for above.
Çok teşekkürler. Just a small correction: it is smaller (daha küçük)
I am sorry to bother you a bit , but i am really confused with the : yukarı taraftaki, could you translate it to me litterally
'Yukarı' is an area which implies 'above' and 'taraf' is 'direction'. And this direction points to an area above the reference point(elephant here).
var is never used when you put location at the end of the sentence )) these are just two different types of sentences with different meanings... Odada masa var (there is a table in the room). Masa odada (the table is in the room).
That would be the english meaning of (There is a duck above the elephant = Filin üzerinde bir ördek var)
It is also the genitive case (which is the case here). The postposition "üzeri" in all of its forms requires the genitive case. :)
It is the top of the elephant, isn't it? The elephant's top. That sounds like a possessive structure to me. So I feel the possessive ending is perfectly justified. Is it really the genitive case??
the location noun gets the possessive case right? Then why is it not uzerisinde? For on top of me it would be uzerimde right so why not uzerisinde?????
I think "üzeri" already contains what your are looking for. "Filin üzeri" is the elephant's top, kind of. So, saying "üzerisi" would be doubling the possessive ending. In other words, "üzeri" already contains the possessive suffix. The optional "s" is only there in some words, depending on the ending of the root word. For example, it would be there with the word "bahçe" - "garden":
I: bahçe-m - my garden
You: bahçe-n - your garden
He/She: bahçe-si - his/her garden
And it is not there with the word "el" - "hand":
I: el-im - my hand
You: el-in - your hand
He/She: el-i - his/her hand
That is how "üzerinde" works, as well, kind of.
And a funny thing is, when you add a further suffix, "-de", the singular second and third person forms may end up the same:
2nd person: el-in-de - in your hand
3rd person: el-i-n-de - in his/her hand - The "n" here is a buffer sound between the two suffixes.
Same way with "üzerinde":
2nd: üzerin-de - on top of you
3rd: üzeri-n-de - on top of him/her/it
That's why, if there is a possibility of confusion, they will add the personal pronouns:
"senin üzerinde" - on top of you
"onun üzerinde" - on top of him/her/it.
Experts, please correct me if I am wrong.
then i feel like the base noun would be uzer and not uzeri this is so confusing but thank you for your response
You know what, maybe my explanation is not totally correct. Maybe, indeed, the base noun is "üzeri" and, logically, it should be "üzerisinde".
After all, we have "içeri" and "içerisi" for "the inside of" sg. So why not "üzerisi", following the same pattern?
But it is not "üzerisi". It is "üzeri". Let's just call it an irregular case. The reason for it could be the natural simplification of languages. There was probably no need for distinguishing "üzeri" and "üzerisi", ie. there was no use for "üzeri" to be meaning anything other than "the top of sg". So "üzeri" assumed the role that would have belonged to the more complicated "üzerisi", rendering it unnecessary and practically nonexistent. Something like that.
This is not unusual with languages. Something should logically and regularly be expressed in a more complicated way, but frequently there is a kind of "shortcut".
thank you! Turkish is just so different from the Romance languages I am used to learning and I want to make sure I don't miss anything