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  5. "Bahçede, kahvaltıdayım."

"Bahçede, kahvaltıdayım."

Translation:I am in the garden, at the breakfast.

April 8, 2015



Could you not say, "I am at the garden having breakfast?" It's not a literal translation, but conveys the same thing. "I am at the garden, at the breakfast" feels really awkward to my English eyes.


Yes, the comma isn't helping either. I thought it was "in the garden, i am at breakfast".


"I am at the breakfast in the garden." is also accepted as correct by Duolingo. This is about giving location and less about what I am doing there, I think. So, if I were at a hotel and someone were to meet me, I would want them to know where I am: I am not at the breakfast in the buffet area, but at the breakfast in the garden. Being at breakfast or having breakfast is concentrating on what I am doing there, but this sentence is supposed to be concentrating on where I am.


But "I am at breakfast in the garden" is not accepted. Why is the definite article necessary?


I am, YIM, is with the breakfast. I am having breakfast. Where? In the garden. Therefore, "In the garden, I am having breakfast." is proper and literal translation......But who can argue with Duo? Ha ha


At the breakfast is bad English. I have never ever heard anyone say that in UK, eg at the meeting, at the restaurant, at the birthday party sound fine. It would be that people dont have the same traditions and in UK you wouldn't really meet for breakfast so maybe that's why it sounds strange and 'having breakfast' is usual


Was accepted for me.


To my English eyes, it's bizarre!


to my English ears it is. Never heard of being 'at breakfast.


I agree. If I heard someone say 'at the breakfast' I would simply assume they were not a native English speaker. I can see grammatically how it is fine and would seem the best translation from many languages but it is certainly not something we say in English. There is of course that rare exception where there is a special event breakfast like a wedding breakfast which we might shorten, for example, from 'are you going to the wedding breakfast?' to 'are you going to the breakfast'. There is nothing to suggest this rare/special case in the Turkish. The Turkish means what an English person would mean by 'at breakfast'. It is a bad translation and misleading. You could defend 'the breakfast' on the technicality of a special case if you were doing a test but you really shouldn't teach it.


Should be top coment


Given you a lingot as you have said exactly same as me. Actually when I was new to the tradition of Turkish breakfast meet ups I was invited to 'come for breakfast tomorrow' I didn't go as thought it was a' come on' not a real breakfast ha! ha! Probably why it doesnt translate well!!


I think it is acceptable to use "at the breakfast." One could say, for instance, "I am in the garden at the breakfast given by our association."

Leaving off "given by our association" would be fine as long as the context was known. In this case, "I am in the garden at the breakfast" would be fine.

In any case, I believe this is perfect English, at least in the United States. Perhaps we are encountering another example of what constitutes proper usage of "at" versus "in" in British versus American branches of grammar.

I think what is throwing most people here is the misplaced comma. There is no need for it in the translated sentence.


I thought the same, but having is continous tanse, and this HAS TO be present simple.... :/


Or I am having breakfast in the garden


That's what I wrote as well


The same thing came to my mind exactly


"I am having breakfast in the garden" should be accepted. I've reported. By the way, in English uou do not say "I am having THE breakfast"


I am going to have to disagree with you here. There is a specific verb for "to have breakfast" in Turkish that is used quite frequently. This sentences just means that you are "at a/the breakfast," meaning that it was a planned event with friends/fam/etc.

Your sentence would be "Bahçede kahvaltı yapıyorum" :)


We have such a verb in German too and say "Ich frühstücke im Garten". But you are obviously far more advanced than me!


It works in proper English as well. As in the breakfast being an event, it's just not something anyone would say in English. It's not great for teaching when English is the prerequisite for learning


Why is this not Bahçedeyim, kahvaltıdayım?


you shouldn't repeat personal endings. it sounds like I am in the garden, I am at the breakfast.


Would it be accurate to say that "bahçede" is being used as an adverb here?


Not really, locational adverbs are like here, there, everywhere, anywhere, up, down..

it's more like adverbial prepositional phrases. it's called dolaylı tümleç in turkish. dative, locative and ablative cases that give information about location are placed in this category. adverbial prepositional phrases can be counted as adverbs in english but a dolaylı tümleç would not be counted as an adverb. so we perceive them like indirect objects or more accurately 'indirect complements' rather than adverbs.

it's also open to debate i guess. for example

Yukarı çıkıyorum. -> I'm going up. here yukarı is adverb. Yukarıya çıkıyorum. -> Im going up. here it's a dolaylı tümleç just because it's inflected in dative case.

It's really weird. Maybe that would be correct to say it's both adverb and dolaylı tümleç (indirect complement).


Well, we do replace it in English with an adverbial prepositional phrase. "in the garden" describing where, which is functioning as an adverb does. In Turkish, there is no preposition, just a noun in Locative case.

I think it is confusing to say it is like an indirect object just because it is a noun coming after a verb and is not a direct object. The location is not exactly receiving the action. I threw him the ball in the park. "him" would be the indirect object, "ball" would be the direct object, "in the park" would be the adverbial prepositional phrase that would be replaced with a noun in locative case in Turkish.


I totally agree. 'Dolaylı tümleç' corresponds more to the adverbial prepositional phrases that are only about the location. I was confused because dolaylı means indirect in Turkish. I will edit my post.


but how could breakfast be a location ? wouldn't be more meaningfull if we say having breakfast coz i've never heard someone saying am at the breakfast ;)


"A breakfast" is sometimes an event, in which case it's quite common to say "I am/will be/was at the breakfast"


Okay ,if this was the cace it would be logical..teşekkurlar


And why not bahcedeyim, kahvalte


Yes, you really can't say ''at the breakfast'' in English. 'Having' breakfast would be best, but if you're not allowed to use 'having' because of the Turkish construction, then 'at breakfast' is better, but nobody would say that. Could we not be allowed a good translation, rather than a literal one?


Of course you can say "at the breakfast" :) If my work is hosting a breakfast event, I can most certainly ask a coworker "do you know who is going to be at the breakfast?"

"To have breakfast" in Turkish is "kahvaltı yapmak"


I think the problem is most non-native English speakers are ok with breakfast being an event, so therefore the word can stand alone. When we use breakfast as an event, we use it as an adjective, such as the breakfast meeting. We will also use it as a noun for an event, but it is very specific. Easter Breakfast, Christmas Breakfast, or birthday breakfast.

So in your example, we would actually say, "Do you know who is going to be at the breakfast meeting"? Or "Do you know who is going to be at Easter breakfast"?


only when it is a planned meal , that's helpful


The English translations are driving me mad. Most of the time is not English but American.


Yes, if you look at the little flag as the Duo language sign, it is the American flag, not the English, meaning: Duo teaches or uses American English.


It does not sound right to an American either. The awkward translations were done by a non-native English speaker.


No English person would ever say I am at breakfast. Nor would they say at the breakfast. They would say I am having breakfast in the garden. The translation given should be removed immediately.


There's nobody who speaks English outside England?


Actually, I don't think any American would say "at breakfast" for the daily meal either. But "at the breakfast" referring to a specific organized event would make sense.

For everyday use it is simply "have breakfast" or "eat breakfast".

If the Turkish implies a formal planned event, then "at the breakfast" is ok. If it is intended to refer to any breakfast any day I think the most idiomatic translation would be "I have (or eat) breakfast in the garden."


If you read the thread, this sentence is about an event.

Not quite sure what you mean by "for the daily meal." "at breakfast" refers to what I might refer to as a smaller scale event than what I'd use "at the breakfast" for. If someone were out to breakfast with a friend and somebody called them and they answered the phone," I could easily imagine them saying, "Sorry, I'm at breakfast; I can't talk now." Or, upon saying good-night, "So I'll see you tomorrow at breakfast?"


Besides the power dynamics at play in conversations over who qualifies as 'English' or 'American', as piguy3 says, more people speak the language outside of these places than inside. The 'truth' of a language is a fiction. Language is, in some senses, a tool used according to, in part, the needs of the users. Anyway, besides this, people in England do say "at breakfast" on occasion. I'm thinking of in hotels and among the ruling class - this is quite frequently used, enough that a person who is neither in hotels or of the ruling class knows of this usage :)


Good explanation as yes it could be used in Uk for a planned event but not for referring to a normal breakfast. Maybe better to change the Duo one to lunch that would work!! Just breakfast one sounds weird!!


Jeez! I was going to recommend simply "I am having breakfast in the garden". But this is getting heated! Rather than make a case for it, I will simply say that this is the most general way of saying this in American English--Oh, yes, if by "garden" you mean "grass", then we say, "I am having breakfast on the lawn".


Unless you are simply giving your location to someone who will be meeting you there and you are not having breakfast yet, but are waiting for that person. You needed to let the person know that you were at the breakfast in the garden, because you could have been at one of the other breakfasts in the many other locations at the hotel.


100 comments about "at breakfast"!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not English native but i remember my English lessons. Dont you remember, don't you know or haven't you learnt that "AT, IN and ON are prepositions of time, not only of place? For example in: "It is cold AT nigth, I shall go AT six, We are leaving IN October, I shall go shopping ON Saturday, ....etc Night, six, October and Saturday are not places! And "breakfast" too. So "at the breakfast" is ok. What do you think about that?


You have been such a help throughout this thread Mariane!

I cannot speak on behalf of all dialects of English. However, this course was created with American English in mind. at the breakfast and at breakfast are non-issues in most varieties of American English.

If you know someone who speaks Turkish and British English, please have them apply to help on the course!


Then it would be "at breakfast time." In the sentence in the exercise "at breakfast" sounds wrong. A few English lessons do not trump decades of speaking and using the language.


I have never once heard anyone around me say "I am at breakfast time." Sounds like something my grandma or the Silent Generation would say.

Marianne is not incorrect. It is perfectly acceptable to say "I am at the breakfast", but I already explained this in another response to one of your other comments.


Thank you, this is one of the only correct responses on the whole thread. "I am at the breakfast" is perfectly acceptable English if we are talking about a specific breakfast made known to others.


Can this also mean--"He's at the garden, I'm at the breakfast"?


No... If there are two subjects in a single Turkish sentence, we have to include both pronouns to avoid that exact confusion :-)

He's in the garden, I'm at the breakfast =
O, bahçede, ben kahvaltıdayım.

In Duo's sentence, the pronoun has been omitted, so the whole sentence must share the same subject :-)


It seems the answer should be "he/she/it is in the garden, I am at breakfast", how do we know bahçede is referring to "me" and not 3rd singular?


If there are two subjects in a single Turkish sentence, we have to include both pronouns to avoid that exact confusion :-)

He's in the garden, I'm at the breakfast = O, bahçede, ben kahvaltıdayım.

In Duo's sentence, the pronoun has been omitted, so the whole sentence must share the same subject :-)


'...at the breakfast.' sounds completely wrong/odd to a native english speaker. 'I am in the garden having breakfast' or I am having breakfast in the garden' sound natural. An english speaker would never say they were 'at the' of any meal though they would say (for instance) 'at the breakfast table' or 'at the breakfast buffet'.


I don't think many Brits would use that expression. It sounds more like a foreign person trying speak it. Only if you said something like 'At the Wedding Breakfast' would it seem right.


What does "I am at breakfast" mean?


It means you are present for the breakfast, either eating it or at or near the table in some manner.


I have breakfast in the garden. Who will "be at the breakfast in the garden"?


Breakfast isn't a time it's a meal


"I am at breakfast, in the garden" is correct and was accepted by Duo


Literally no one says 'I am in the garden, at THE breakfast'. But if it's 'at breakfast', then it's perfectly fine. I don't think you need an article for that because it's more like a phrase (at breakfast, at lunch, at dinner, etc.)


I would have said: I'm having breakfast in the garden.

That sounds better to me than at the breakfast.


This seems silly. I have never heard any English dialect say "at the breakfast". Breakfast is not a place, and is definitely not a place inside a garden. But good to know Turkish uses breakfast that way, as that is the reason why it's not allowing other usages, even if that is breaking English and thus not truly DUO lingo on this one, as that is teaching poor English usage.


ngueng, please, read my comments just below. AT, IN, ON are also prepositions of time. Not only of place.


Is "the breakfast" somewhere to be at? Why don't you use a more common sentence or expression to teach this word? BTW thanks for the hard work you guys are doing.


It can be! Breakfast can be an event. For example, my former coworkers in Zonguldak had a breakfast for me and I was at that breakfast :)


What I mean is that it might be better to start off with more familiar sentences. Thanks anyway.


Hello hamed, i think that in this sentence, "kavaltidayim" means the place where i have my breakfast, the place in the garden, table, chair and so on. In "kavaltidayim", locative case is used, so, it is a matter of place and not action (have, eat breakfast=kavalti yapmak, as AlexiNotTurkey writes in a comment above).


I know they are both accepted, but why the official solution is "I am in the garden, at the breakfast." and not "I am at the breakfast, in the garden"?

The second seems to me more literal than the first one.


"I am at the breakfast in the garden." is accepted as correct by Duolingo. They are both correct and one is not more official than the other. They just show one possible answer at the top of the page and that is not always the best answer. Sometimes it is the last answer added.


Iam having breakfast at the garden sounds a much better translation in englush


"at the garden" definitely is no good in English :)


No, "at the garden" has a different meaning. It would mean that we have breakfast outside the garden but very close to it. It's the same as with a house, for example. When you have an appointment "in the house", you should wait inside. When you have an appointment "at the house", you should wait outside.


I still disagree. At least in American English, you cannot say "at the garden." I just sounds like foreign and non-native, but understandable.

The one exception of course (me being a proud Bostonian) would be if you had a concert hall or stadium called "the Garden." There is a stadium in Boston called the TD Garden and we would say that an event happens at the garden.


You seem to be under the impression that you are contradicting what I wrote. But I think if you look again you will see that I didn't claim "at the garden" is idiomatic. I just added a new aspect to your response.

On the other hand, I think you just overstated how unidiomatic it is. It is a well known linguistic phenomenon that native speakers make questionable utterances all the time - utterances which they often deny and reject as incorrect when you confront them with what they just said. There is a huge difference between what is fully grammatical/idiomatic in the strictest sense and what native speakers say and understand in typical communication situations without noticing any problem. This zone isn't well defined. It doesn't just vary from speaker to speaker - you can easily get contradictory statements from the same speaker within a few minutes.

I am pretty sure that "at the garden" is near the grammatical/idiomatic end of this spectrum. Sometimes it will be considered fully acceptable by native speakers even on reflection, and occasionally it will be rejected. Though I don't really know, I instinctively doubt that there is a significant difference between major variants of English here.

A typical communication situation where this could arise: Having met someone "at the garden gate" last week, you might propose meeting "at the garden again", as a good compromise between precision and brevity.


"at the garden" seems completely fine to me in limited circumstances.

Simply consider the sentence, "I'm at the breakfast at the botanical garden."

If you're talking on the phone to someone who is not at the same garden, then "at the garden" arises naturally (naturally enough that I doubt my use of the relevant preposition-noun combo in the previous clause drew any particular notice ;)

Of course "the breakfast at the botanical garden" is not restricted to being near but outside the botanical garden. It can very much be within the confines of the garden itself.

I suspect what you find weird about "at the garden" is many times there's no garden that's contextually clear enough to be referenced by "the." But when there is (just a broader case of the exception you note at the end, really), then it works.


Give my regards to Boston. And thanks for all the work you have done for DL; it is a pity that you are not around and available for discussions anymore.


"At breakfast" sound awkard


at the breakfast sounds even worse


"I am at the breakfast in the garden" is accepted. Could "I am at a breakfast in the garden" be accepted as well?


It seems duolingo needs to learn english. I dont understand why we are even discussing this. In english, we eat breakfast or we have breakfast....period!!


Quoting AlexNotInTurkey from above: "This sentences just means that you are 'at a/the breakfast,' meaning that it was a planned event with friends/fam/etc."

This is perfectly natural in my variety of English at least.


What if I want to say:

"I am at my breakfast"


Just squeeze a possessive suffix in before the locative case ending: kahvaltımdayım


As Mizinamo explains very clearly above, when you have two verbs in a sentence, with the same subject "i", you don't need to repeat the personal ending "-yim"


The default translation should be "In the garden, I'm at the breakfast" (aside from whether at the breakfast is correct or not) otherwise it's just confusing. because bahçede itself can't be "I'M in the garden" I guess.



As Mizinamo explains very clearly above, when you have two verbs in a sentence, with the same subject "i", you don't need to repeat the personal ending "-yim". "Bahçede" alone does not mean 'i am in the garden", but "Bahçede, kavaltidayim" means "i am in the garden, at the breakfast". I assume that "Bahçede" or "O, bahçede" alone, means "She/he is in the garden". And you would have "(O), bahçede, kahvaltida= She/he is in the garden, at the breakfast". What do you think about that?


I see. Thank you for helping. Teşekkürler.


In English should be' I have breakfast in the garden '


Surely i am in the garden would be bahçedeyim


Yes, martin, you rigth. have a nice day!


Please, before post a question, do read all the comments! About the topic do read the comment of Orde90 who answers to "spekypsyche", at the top. When there is one subject, here "i"="ben" and two verbs, you don't need to put the personal suffix at the end of the first verb.


The "correct answer" given is not English. The most common translation would be "I'm having breakfast in the garden" or "I'm in the garden, having breakfast", but these are not accepted. If you were a member of the royal family, you might possibly come out with something like "I'm at breakfast", but I've never heard anyone say it in real life. And if it means "I'm at the breakfast", as in a planned, relatively large-scale event... Well, that's a really rare occurrence for most people, and not very useful for learning a language (not to mention confusing).


Michael, i am sorry, but you are here to learn Turkish and to translate it in good English, writen English, i think not in common, spoken English. Don't you think so?


"At the breakfast" This is not something any English speaker would ever say. It implies that breakfast is a place, it is not a place it is an activity.


It is acceptable to say if the breakfast is a specific breakfast.

Person A: Where are you?

Person B: I'm at the breakfast given by our department.

If it's wrong, how else would you say it in this context?

As an aside, and this is certainly not an attack on you, but I'm struggling to figure out why so many purportedly native English speakers on this thread think this is an unacceptable way to say it when it is in fact perfectly fine in the context I wrote it.

I'm at the meeting.

I'm at the event.

I'm at the breakfast.

All acceptable.


In response to the plethora of comments addressing it, I must strongly disagree with the assertion that "I am at the breakfast" is incorrect English. It is not, at least not among North Americans.

We use this construction all of the time: I am at the dinner, I am at the lunch, I am at the breakfast...

IF... said dinner, lunch or breakfast is a specific lunch and has the implication of being pre-planned or as a meeting known among peers.

Usually, it is said this way to indicate that the person is at a nutritional event and has made others aware of it beforehand. For instance, consider this brilliant slice of text of an angry boss over the phone to a calm employee:

Angry Boss: Where are you?! You're supposed to be at your desk! Calm Employee: I'm at the breakfast being given by the company President. Angry Boss: Wh... what? Is that today? Calm Employee: Yes. Will I see you at the lunch? Angry Boss: fidgeting Too much to do here, I'll be at the dinner, though.

Perfectly acceptable in all cases in this context.

I'm thinking most of the people who oppose this or thing it is wrong are of British origin, or have had British-based teachings.

This is fine, but be aware that not every nuance of English is shared all around the world. Where you say "We are at breakfast" and NEVER say "We are at the breafkast" (by Jove!), we say it all of the time in context of what I wrote above.



It sounds wrong to Americans too.


I'm American and it sounds 100% natural to me. America is a big place and there are often dialectical differences amongst various states, even within states. As I said in my previous comment (which you ostensibly downvoted) it could be related to regional differences.

English isn't all on the straight and narrow and is very inconsistent much of the time. Where a grammar rule works in one part of the globe it gets shunned in another. I think some of us forget that.

I stand by my comment. "I am at the breakfast" is just as acceptable to say as "I am at the train station" assuming you are talking about a specific breakfast made known to others.

"I am at the train station." Acceptable.

"I am at the work breakfast." Acceptable.

"I am at the breakfast." Also acceptable.


Is " park " wrong for bahçe ?

Park and garden are the same ... or are they different ?


Sami, perhaps it is a question of size....but my friends who are market gardener tell about "their garden" where vegetables, fruits...grow - but a garden of 4 hectars!!! Perhaps in a garden you rather work the land to get flowers, vegetables, fruits and in a park you rest, you walk, you run, you talk...., you have picnic, etc.


I think that would be called a farm!


If we do consider the comma in the middle separating the two words, wouldn't this sentence literally mean "at the garden, i am at the breakfast"?


The translation seems wrong.


I am having breakfast in the garden was not accepted. Very disappointed


This is not an English sentence! Even Google gets it slightly better.


Can we have the answers in English please?


ENGLISH answers please


It would be more natural to say "I'm having/eating breakfast im the garden" or "I'm in the garden having breakfast"


Your English translation doesn't sound right.


Your English translation doesn't sound right.


Okay sorry the English translation that we are forced to use in just not right


I have (eat) the breakfast at the gard

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