it is the buffer letter. as "hayvanat bahçesi" is a genitive construction, it uses the buffer -n and not -y
there is two buffers in Turkish (y) is used in direct object case while (n) is for the genitive case
Could you explain me why are you saying that this is a 'Genetive construction'?
I don't need to have the zoo to go.
Thanks in advance
Turkish uses possessive suffixes in noun compounds That is what the -si is doing on the end of "bahçe." When you use this suffix, you have to add the buffer letter -n before any case endings.
I just wanna confirm... we need to use -n always after the possessives suffixes?
alright.. it's understandable once it means "Garden-of-them".. but.. what about AIRPORT??? (i.g.: HavalimaniNdayim" .. why the buffer -n here? O.o (teshekkür ederim) ®
It's the same thing;
hava=air , liman= port , havalimanı= port of air = airport,
So we use the buffer "n" between ( ı - da ).
Hmmmmmmmmmmm! ok.. you've convinced me... :D ♠ (nice to know.. thank youuuuuuuuuuuu!) ®
the -ı in havalimanı is the possessive suffix for the 3rd person singular? When we want to put the words together we only need to skip the genitive ending and put the (s)ı basically? Correct me if I'm mistaken. Teşekkür ederim :)
we are at its garden.
Hayvanat bahçesi = Animals garden-of-them = Garden of Animals = Animals Garden = Zoo
But because of the ambiguity from the buffer consonant before -de, "bahçesindeyiz" could also mean "We are at your garden," right?
No. That happens when a word ends in a consonant. Evindeyiz can be we are in his/her/your house.
We are in your garden would be bahçendeyiz
Turkish "hayvan" (animal) + "-at" (Arabic plural suffix) + "bahçe" (garden) + "-si" (Turkish suffix); it literally means "animals garden".
I'm guessing you usually say "hayvanlar", though, and you only use the Arabic plural suffix in this set construction? Or can you also say "hayvanat pastayı yer"?
It is just in this set expression. The vast majority of Turkish speakers do not even know that "hayvanat" is the plural in Arabic.
We know it Alex. Perhaps, an ignorant doesn't know it. Hayvanat, erat, mücevherat etc all of them are the same but we commonly use only for hayvanAT bahçesi not the others
Hayvanat = Hayvanlar = Animals
Erat = Erler = Soldiers
Mücevherat = Mücevherler = Jewels
Here (and in many similar cases) it marks the word being defined by the previous one. Hopefully there will be many examples later.
Why is this buffer even used in this situatuon, between a vocal and a consonant? It sounds pronounceable to me...
(n) da, de, den,dan : they take the buffer letter -n- when added as a second suffix to an already extended noun.
So, in this word bahçesindeyiz " Si " is the first suffix and "de" is the second one, so we added a buffer "n" before it, thus, it will be "si-n-de" "...sinde...".
To learn more about suffix in turkish: http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/suffix.htm
This important reply should be at the top of the discussion because of may I say unwanted buffer n is used but now the reason of adding it was clear.
There is a suffix -si and a buffer letter -n.
-si is used in noun compounds like this. It just shows that the two words are connected. The -n is a buffer letter that occurs after the -si suffix if a case ending is added. :)
You keep mentioning "case endings". I am sorry, I am not sure what means? Care to elaborate? thanks.
In Turkish, nouns can take different endings depending on their role in the sentence. Subjects take nothing; the objects of most verbs take the accusative case ending -(y)I [y is a buffer letter added after nouns and the I represents vowel harmony]; if you want to say "in/at/on X" the case ending -DA is used, etc.
Basically it is just endings on nouns that change their grammatical role.
Bunu dinlemek isterim "We are at your zoo" O olacak: "Biz hayvanat bahçesinindeyiz"? Teşekkür once
dinlemek > denemek
"Hayvanat bahçesi". Önce "-si"yi sil. --> "Hayvanat Bahçe-".
Şimdi "your"u ekle: Hayvanat bahçe-niz.
At your zoo: Hayvanat bahçeniz-de.
We are at your zoo: Hayvanat bahçenizde-yiz.
Teşekkür önce > Şimdiden teşekkürler (thanks in advance).
It does not in Turkish. By itself, it doesn't really have a meaning. Turkish is not Arabic.
Why is it that in "bahçendeyiz" you are using a buffer letter (the "n")? The "-de" is the first suffix you are adding, so why is it not "bahçedeyiz"?? İ thought this was correct, unlike how @ektoraskan says. İ am confused now
- Bahçe = garden
- Bahçede = in the garden
- Bahçen = your garden
- Bahçende = in your garden. ('n' is NOT a buffer here)
- Bahçesi = his garden
- Bahçesinde = in his garden ('n' is a buffer here.)
Thanks a lot Ektoraskan, I was confused thinking it was buffer. If "bahçesinde" is "in his garden" then why "hayvanat bahçesindeyiz" means "we are at the zoo"? And not "we are at HIS zoo"? Would that (we are at HIS zoo) then be "hayvanat bahçesisindeyiz"?
Because that's how Turkish functions.
The X Y (ex: the car key) and the Y of the X (ex: the key of the car) constructions require that you put 3rd person possessive on the second word.
- The car key = araba anahtarı
- The key of the car = arabanın anahtarı.
In a way, you're saying "Of the car its key".
Hayvanat bahçesi is the same. Literally: Animals their garden = garden of animals.
I think you didn't understand my question Ektoraskan. But never mind, thanks a lot :-)
Sorry i forgot the last part of your question.
We at his zoo and we are at the zoo are the same in Turkish. Hayvanat bahçesindeyiz.
Your suggestion "bahçesisindeyiz" is logical, I admit, but it is incorrect.
If you want, you can add "onun".
Biz onun hayvanat bahçesindeyiz.
Thank you! I have a question: In example #4: Bahc(h)ende = in your garden. de is the second suffix, so technically it should be preceded by a buffer "n", but the reason that won't happen is that the first suffix is already an "n", correct?
Thanks a lot Ektoraskan :-) Got it now. Can you tell me how to say "You (plural) are at the zoo" please? İ always confuse the endings for "Biz" and "Siz", and here İ can't get to figure it out with hayvanat bahçesi :-/
It sounds funny, a mix of English and Turkish. Never heard of it from all the series I've watched, but I am not a native speaker :)