https://www.duolingo.com/asawp

Concerning Lingot Inflation

asawp
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I'm sure many of you have recently logged into your Duolingo account, earned some points, and discovered that you weren't awarded lingots for keeping your streak. I know you have, because you've taken to the forums and complained about it. This change is being labeled as a measure to help reduce the inflation the lingot economy has seen recently, but, and no offense intended to anyone, how could this change possibly be the full answer to the problem?

Since they are virtual rewards, the “Duolingo Virtual Reserve” can generate as many lingots as needed. That's what's causing the problem; it does in any economy. But in this virtual economy we have a slightly different scenario because the only thing stabilizing the economy is the Lingot Store.

Inflation is when the supply of lingots rises, causing a fall in the value of each individual lingot. Right now, far more lingots are being awarded to users than enter the Lingot Store. An ideal situation would be when the number coming into the store through purchases and going out of the store through rewards are equal.

The change Duolingo has implemented obviously won't fix the problem because lingots still won't be coming out of the economy. Why? There is next to nothing to buy in the lingot store! The answer to our economic problem here isn't to stop rewarding users for their hard work, it is to add items to the lingot store, increasing the number of lingots being taken out of our virtual economy.

That being said, a big thank you to all of those volunteers and staff who make this program possible. The lingot economy is really a trivial thing, but I just thought this should be brought up. Please leave your thoughts, opinions, and ideas in the comment section below!

3 years ago

67 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/OneAndOnlyJosh

Economies are based on Supply and Demand. The supply of lingots is very high, causing inflation of lingots. Duolingo has taken steps to fix this by removing your lingots for your streak. Another step which I hope they will take will to increase the demand for lingots. Either by raising prices (which I don't think would be right) or by enlarging the store (which would be awesome!).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KevanSF
KevanSF
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"causing inflation"? Has the lingot price of anything gone up? As far as I know, the prices of the few items in the lingot store have not changed since I have been a member of Duo. If the prices are not changing, there is NO inflation.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/iSamurai

That's not true at all. Prices (and increases/decreases) are just a way to MEASURE inflation and deflation.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HeatingUp

thats because inflation is a decrease in the value of a currency. since the currency is worth less in value, prices increase.. How have lingots lost their value?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MikaelMello
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People before were much more attached to their lingots then now, lingts are given away easily, so they have less value.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sarefo
sarefo
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Here, have 21 lingots :D

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MikaelMello
MikaelMello
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That's what I'm talking about ^^^^^ haha

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HeatingUp

that doesn't represent a loss in buying power though.. has nothing to do with the willingness to give away money.. In a sense the community has just gotten richer

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SussexSoleil

It is not true of all economies; Duolingo are effectively operating a Soviet-era economy.

Everyone is in "employment", everyone is paid almost regardless of the quality of their work (you only needed to log in and earn 1 XP per day to maintain your streak and be handsomely rewarded at the end of every 10 days). So there is plenty of "money" sloshing around.

There is almost nothing in the shops that people can (or would want to) buy. The prices are fixed by the "state", often at an artificially low price.

Inflation does not figure in this economic model, because the price of goods does not change. It has little to do with the amount of money in circulation.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OneAndOnlyJosh

Correct. What I meant by: "Inflation of lingots" was that the amount of lingots is so high that they are now worthless. You hit the nail on the head when you said: "There is almost nothing in the shops that people can (or would want to) buy". I have bought everything from the lingot store, even a champagne tracksuit and a tuxedo of sorts. I never even see them on the desktop!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ShrimpCeviche

Nice answer Captain. Now all you need to do is take Economics 101 when you go to college so you can understand why what you are saying doesn't make sense.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/WackyJack

It is true that decreases in aggregate supply are supposed to cause inflation in an economic model. However, that assessment assumes there is some production in the economy, which Duo does not have. There is only currency in the economy; not production. So, reducing the supply of lingots is the same as contractionary monetary policy, which decreases inflation.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/asawp
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Thanks for clarifying. I had tried incorporating that idea into my post by emphasizing that the only thing stabilizing the economy is the Lingot Store but I did a poor job of explaining how this economy differs from the real life ones we're all used to.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/rachelrypkema

I wish they didn't do this "give less lingots" thing, it's kind of frustrating as I'm trying to save up for quizzes and streak freezes and stuff

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DanielFloresU

alt text

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Johnni0
Johnni0
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No need to save for streak freezes, you are no longer rewared for keeping streak ;)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Alex.Essilfie
Alex.Essilfie
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Maybe you're not rewarded for keeping a streak but I tell you, seeing a long streak can keep you going.

When I first saw smearedink's streak, I was at about 50 days on mine. It was because of him that I had the motivation to keep up my streak. Now I keep doing my streak because looking around Duolingo, I see that I'm one of the few with a 300+ day streak and I am very sure others look up to me for motivation.
alex.essilfie+smearedink-2015-05-06

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Alex.Essilfie
Alex.Essilfie
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For this reason of 'reducing the number of lingots awarded', I went to download an older version of the Android app in order to keep a steady supply of lingots.

You never know when you'll have to buy another streak freeze at 20 lingots a shot.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CharmingTiger
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The next A/B test will be an automatic deduction of lingots to take the Progress Quiz for anyone with more than 250 lingots.

I'm just kidding, guys! I apologize for being sarcastic; I am currently in the group that is no longer receiving streak lingots, and would just like everyone to know that I share the concerns of what seems to be the great majority of the users right now.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/iSamurai

Here have a lingot since you aren't getting any ;) (Not like they're useful for anything anyway)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cyndiluwho

I took the progress quiz a little while back and stunk up the place. I'll just keep practicing, thanks. LOL.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PoetryOtter

I'd love to buy things from the store. Maybe even something similar to Busuu, where you decorate a garden. Here could be other, fun things.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knoxienne
Knoxienne
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That would be a great idea if Duolingo would do that. :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SamHansen
SamHansen
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Perhaps we could purchase a family for Duo

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/susanstory
susanstory
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How about we all pool our lingots together to buy Duo his own private jet?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ShrimpCeviche

My owl wants tattoos and piercings. He doesn't care much for gardening unless it attracts rodents, which he likes.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Octal

They did say this was the first step and emphasized the fact that they would be doing more. Hopefully the next step will be adding more things to purchase from the store.

I disagree that there isn't anything to buy from the store. The quiz is a nice perk and can be purchased as often as you can afford to. The streak freeze is also a repeatable purchase, at least if you miss days now and then.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BeccBeck

The streak freeze is a little useless if you're not getting any lingots for a streak anymore, isn't it? Or are we getting anything else from a long streak?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/yamtarda
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Indeed. I want the lingots I spent on a streak freeze back if there is no point keep a streak going!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lazar.ljubenovic
lazar.ljubenovic
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The point of keeping a streak is streak itself for me. No lingots for the streak doesn't change my determination to keep it going higher and higher.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LennStar

That may be. But if you dont get lingots for keeping it, then heck, I wont sit down at 23:30 with the thought "sh** I forgot" or "I didnt have time today" and just dont do anything for that day. I definitely wouldnt buy a streak freeze. I used up 4 for this 140 streak btw. 2 times forgot 2 times no time.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lazar.ljubenovic
lazar.ljubenovic
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Well since lingots are pretty useless once you buy everything from the lingot store, I can't see how being awarded with more is what keeps you motivated. If there were constant updates in the store - sure, but like this?

But oh well, everyone's motivated by different things.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/asawp
asawp
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The reward for maintaining a streak is highly affective in getting me to log onto Duolingo consistently and if they go through with this change, I probably won't have the incentive necessary to wake up early or stay up late to study.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lazar.ljubenovic
lazar.ljubenovic
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Well they might add other prizes for keeping the streak, although I think that streak itself is a prize enough.

I mean, what is the award for having lingots with this almost useless shop? It's just having them, right?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/yamtarda
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Each to their own. I want to get as far as I can, but that is a longer term goal and it's good to have a shorter term goal that is rewarded - like extending your streak another ten days (for lingots or another reward), for example. It makes your day go better even if you're struggling with the lessons and want to give up as it forces you to keep going and hence keep learning and keep things ticking over.

It is far to easy to get frustrated and throw in the towel on one particular day, and next day you're still feeling too frustrated and go do something else and you just keep putting it off. (Well, some of us do, anyway ;) ) It took me several goes at trying to maintain a streak and the lingot reward helped me to finally do so which in turned has helped my learning a lot.

Though, having said all that, I know it doesn't help everyone to keep logging in each day to either do a new lesson or refresh old ones...

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/frankenstein724
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same here.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MadMartigan9
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octal was making a very narrow distinction. first he mistook 'there is next to nothing to buy in the lingot store' for 'there isn't anything to buy in the lingot store' then he was kind enough to tell us that we can buy a quiz or a streak freeze, two points not at issue. I am sure that he meant well though.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TheBadGuyJ

where did they say 'first step'? Aren't we assuming that the lingot inflation post and taking away lingots for streaks are related even though the lingot inflation post did not give any specific details?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Pikaiagracilens

Not sure if there's a better place for offering feedback to duolingo, so...

I'm in the test group. I was super disappointed to reach 120 days (my longest streak to date and twice as long as the runner up) and not receive those 12 lingots. However, I don't think this has had a significantly negative impact behaviorally. Still I think it'd be better to have an award on reaching those milestones, and have more things to spend the lingots on if at all possible. Though I've made consistent uses of streak freezes and don't maintain a high surplus of lingots generally.

I personally rather enjoy being able to purchase silly cosmetic things like outfits, backgrounds, someone mentioned filling a garden etc.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/hivemindx
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The lingot economy is part of the gamification process I think. As such I think it is worthwhile to have. I know I am encouraged to work on it every day to keep my streak going and this is partially because of lingots I (used to) get.

There is a problem in that the primary purpose of duolingo is learning so anything that makes it easier to learn that you have to pay for with lingots is probably not a good idea. This means it is hard to know what additional things you can allow people to buy for lingots. Even the custom topics, which I like, are something that you could argue shouldn't be something you have to pay for.

Adding more things to buy is certainly the solution to the problem. Reducing the supply of lingots is not a good long term solution since the logical end point would be to eliminate the supply altogether and therefore eliminate the entire lingot economy.

I think the lingots are an experiment and I don't know how much effort is worth putting in to it but as others have already said the obvious solution is to increase the desirable items for sale in the lingot store. My suggestion would be to upgrade each persons profile page to be a more dynamic thing, similar to screens on the Wii and presumably other game consoles and social sites. For instance, you screen could show an avatar for the language you worked on most recently and every language tree that you have completed. Each avatar can be customised with different clothing, hair styles and colours and accessories like monocles etc. Each avatar can have some environment things like a chaise longue, a 50s juke box or a window showing a famous landmark. Each avatar may be able to have some sort of fidget animation like using a yoyo or smoking a cigarette. Perhaps different languages have different options (your Italian avatar can see the colosseum or a gondola out the window and your French one can see the Eiffel Tower and can hang the Mona Lisa on the wall). Every single element of customisation has to be paid for with lingots.

This would sort out demand issues for the foreseeable future but it would require quite a bit of 'avatar' development work. I'm still a bit vague on how Duolingo earns enough money to pay for the service but it is clear that the money for additional developments like this would have to come from somewhere.

Another idea is to be able to buy translations for lingots. For example I have the Tintin DVDs in French, I can't catch quite a lot of the dialog and the subtitles aren't an exact match, like most subtitles they just give the gist of what is being said. I would love, love, love to have access to word for word transcriptions of the dialog in these DVDs. If I could post a request to have a transcription of Tintin: Objectif Lune which people could pay lingots in to and then if a certain number (10,000 lingots for example) was reached then Duo would source the transcription (either from members or by paying a commercial service) and everyone, not just those that paid, would have access to it that would be a very beneficial use of lingots. I think there would be major, perhaps insurmountable, hurdles to cross before being able to do this, not least of which would be the question of whether this is even legal, but perhaps it could work.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dlaekdnlt123

Can't we purchase additional exercises using lingots? I know french tree has the idioms, flirting and christmas exercises that I bought from the lingot store, but there could very well be more than just three. Usually, the ones who are overflowing with lingots are those who finished at least one course to the end, and all we really do is to repeat the strengthening to keep the exercises gold. If you sold advanced level exercises from lingot store, i think it will pose both great way to spend lingots and additional challenges for those who's done with the course and wanting to do more.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/HenryMille4

The problem is someone who has a good beginners grasp of the language can test out of most of the language and then not have enough lingots to buy the more advanced course they need.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dlaekdnlt123

Well, i think it's only reasonable to give extra lingots for testing out especially if advanced exercises become available in exchange for lingots.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sarefo
sarefo
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or maybe implement a way to give more than single lingots at a time to others. I'm stuck with 2100+ lingots, and too lazy to press the same button 100 times to give my fair share ;)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CharmingTiger
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If you hold both the mouse button and the enter button down when you click "Give Lingot", you will give several at once. You may need to re-press the enter button occasionally, but you will be able to give 50 lingots or more in under 30 seconds.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sarefo
sarefo
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interesting :) it seems to work in batches of seven…

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/CharmingTiger
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Oye! Thank you for making me your test subject :D

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rozzie
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Gracias Tigre

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/LennStar

Ah, and I wondered if it is a bug or if had not seen it. Didnt get lingots for the 140 today,

So i will never get to the point where the lingots from the streak bonus will pay for the streak freezers needed to keep the streak up :D

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/asawp
asawp
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We can still hope they decide this change won't work and change it back to the way it used to be!

Have a lingot - I feel bad because I'm in the control group and still get the reward :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/frankiebluej
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Well said, asawp. ~frankieb

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Cyndiluwho

Thank you for this, I just reached day 280 and didn't get any lingots for that. I thought something was amiss so I thought I'd come in and see if there were any comments before I contacted Duo. I don't really care about the lingots, just thought it was strange when I didn't get the 28 for the streak.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/steph27413

I wondered why I didn't get any yesterday for reaching 40! I liked getting them for the streaks because I'm a full time student and sometimes, I'm too exhausted from actual school stuff to do DL lessons, so I like to be able to purchase a streak freeze if necessary. Losing my streak won't be the end of the world, but it did definitely push me to do a couple of lessons on days when I really just wanted to let my brain veg out. :P Hopefully they bring it back!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/asawp
asawp
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I feel the same way! It's rather sad. Have a few lingots from my stash!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/steph27413

Aww, thanks! :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Goran12
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What I see as an ideal solution: DL team, make Duolingo opensource (at least partially) - if you don't want to make DL opensource, create an API for communication and publish templates for things like compatible looks.

Then start a programming contest: offer some small prize (like a badge of Duo at a computer) for anyone who will make any add-on for Duolingo, either some language learning help or anything (including games). Add something bigger for the author(s) of the best app. After a month or so, take the apps, and either put them to the store (if they are good enough) or encourage further development and put them to the store once they are mature enough.

Some of those plugins may be much more expensive than the items that are there now, Same also can make more than just one item in the store: there was extra heart for DL, but there could be something like this for most of bonus games. Or they may use some kind of collecting. I remember someone proposing opportunity to buy songs/videos in the target language for some DL-integrated media player (even if they are on Youtube as well, some will pay lots of lingots to have them in DL somehow). The lingots would sink out of the economy - the programmers should take some lingots for making/maintaining their apps, but definitely not the millions people would spend on apps (count with me: assume that 1% of the users will buy a plugin for 20 lingots - that's some 30 million).

Besides the "cost" to make DL opensource/ make some API for communication between DL and the add-ons (more expensive, but with no risk of someone using too much of DL's code), it would take just one or two (more if it should be fast, but I see no reason for it) people to guide the volunteer programmers. Those apps might be required to be some kind of opensource (though perhaps with some not completely opensource license, if opensource is frowned upon here), so that volunteer testers may help a lot, decreasing the work needed from Duolingo employees for checking and testing.

The results would be solution of lingot inflation, a lot of bonus features (more or less related to the main site and more or less useful for language learning) and a crowd of software-competent volunteers, some of them willing to do for free/cheaply something that is really needed for DL core. A good reason for publishing some API and few other chunks of code!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/selenahost

I hope duolingo adds more bonus lessons to the lingot store like their idiom and flirting ones. I think it's cool that we can use our game rewards to unlock even more learning. :)

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/DanielFloresU

It would be awesome to have more Bonus skills... maybe related to customs in the countries where the language being practiced is spoken.

I am thinking a Oktoberfest lesson for German, or something like that.

A coursing bonus skill will be awesome, or a slang course, I don't know hehe... certainly someone could come up with something cool.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/vishnugb

This could be an interim measure.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Vrexu

Oh, I just got this random idea that I don't really know if it was posted already, that would reduce the inflation... somehow. Each time you "vote" by giving lingots, you should pay 2 lingots for 1 received by the other entity.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Beatles-Musician
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It's like in the GDR:

Everyone gets higher wages but in fact, they don't have more.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/dingobar
dingobar
  • 12
  • 11
  • 7
  • 6

Impose lingot taxes!

3 years ago

[deactivated user]

    I'm going to commit lingot bribery for you to keep your mouth shut! bad idea ;)

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Beach921
    Beach921
    • 25
    • 1357

    Most of my lingots I earn as part of a streak. What other ways are there to earn lingots?

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/dlaekdnlt123

    Apart from completing skills, you can do 'double or nothing' bet offered in lingot store

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/itsabuscus1

    How will I feed my family, if Lingot prices go up!?!

    2 months ago
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