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  5. "We have to play in a group."

"We have to play in a group."

Translation:Ní mór dúinn imirt i ngrúpa.

April 23, 2015

32 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Joshua807325

I don't know that I've seen, "Ní mór" meaning, "have to" before.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/May258676

Me neither. I find it weird and confusing


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Troublesum1

Me threether.

Umm... I meant I also have not seen it. ^_^

I keep reading "Ní mór dúinn" as "It is not big for us," which (when translated in that way) seems to imply the opposite of an obligation or necessity. Obviously I'm wrong, but I am not understanding the logic behind this construction.

To add to the confusion, the Prepositions 1 Skill already told us that when the preposition ar is "used with the verb , it conveys the idea of obligation." As another commenter below has already stated, I would expect "We have to" to be translated as "Tá orainn."


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1451

Not unlike English, Irish has more than one way to express obligation.

Here are just some of the common ways that you could translate this sentence:
Ní mór dúinn imirt i ngrúpa
Ní foláir dúinn imirt i ngrúpa
Is gá dúinn imirt i ngrúpa
is éigean dúinn imirt i ngrúpa
caithfimid imirt i ngrúpa
Tá orainn imirt i ngrúpa
Tá againn le himirt i ngrúpa

Duolingo has examples using 3 or 4 of these different expressions, as well as other examples addressing other aspects or requirement or necessity.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Troublesum1

Out of curiosity, would you recommend Reporting that "My answer should be accepted" if we get marked wrong for using one of the other options you listed here? (It's now nearly a year later, but this time around I got dinged for "Is gá dúinn..." instead of "Tá orainn..." ^_^ )

I think it's fair for someone to say "I gave a valid translation," but I can also see the potential value in using this specific exercise for teaching a certain new way of expressing obligation. What do you think?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1451

In this case, my guess is that they just wanted to introduce Ní mór do.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Notknowy

Logic behind it might be: it's not something we'd do if not ordered to. It's not big to us meaning that reason behind the fact that we obviously do it is not ours. As if "dont want to but do"="have to".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SteffanieS

I interpreted this to mean "must play." I answered, "Imríonn orainn i ngrúpa" and was marked incorrect. Now I realize that using orainn for "must" only works after bi. Could I have said, "Tá orainn imirt i ngrúpa" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mikeinkerry

I made the same mistake. Now I'm wondering if the all verb-like prepositions (e.g. "ag" - possess, "ar" - must, "faoi" - intend, "ó" - want) should also be preceded by "tá"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CathalMcG

Caithfimid imir i ghrúpa?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/galaxyrocker

imirt i ngrúpa, but yes.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Will546729

I replaced imirt with súgradh, but it shoukdnbe cprrect either way


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vincethec

Is there a way to write this using "is gá..."?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

Yes — Is gá dúinn imirt i ngrúpa.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bredacm

If Duolingo has all these choices why do they not give them to us to choose from? Is this some secret teaching method?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MikeWalton2

Why cannot we be required to play music in a group ? i.e. why is Ní caithfidh muid seinn i ngrúpa wrong ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1451

The verbal noun for the verb seinn is seinm, and to say "we must" with caithfidh, you don't use

Ní mór dúinn seinm i ngrúpa
Caithfimid seinm i ngrúpa
Caithfidh muid seinm i ngrúpa.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Feith9

Seems an expedient and cool sounding colloquial way to express - "There is nothing more for it but for us to" or "there is nothing else for it but for us to" [play in a group].


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TSVj7d

Didn't make any sense to me 'Fuaimid ag imirt sna ghrúpa' makes more sense to me..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1451

What do you think the verb fuaigh means?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J4eJ4mli

Good for you. Your sentence makes little sense to me (the words mean stuff, just not when put together in that way).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bredacm

What is the exact translation of the Irish answer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Troublesum1

I think the closest you're going to find to an "exact" translation is "We have to play in a group." (This is probably not the answer you were hoping for.)

Other comments in this thread have mentioned how Irish has different ways of expression obligation. "Ní mór dúinn" is just one more of them.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1451

The exact translation is "We have to play in a group."

is the negative form of the copula is, mór means "big", dúinn could mean "to us", "for us", "of ours".

If you think it's helpful to create a "literal" translation of ní mór dúinn, then "it is not big for us", is probably the best you're going to get. I don't really see that as helpful in this case, because the actual meaning of ní mór dúinn is "it is necessary for us" or "we must", or "we have to".


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Bredacm

Thank you Troublesum1 - It's just that anything starting with "Ní" is such a negative compared to the positive "We have to" it is hard to understand.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/raymonddix4

I think you are making it up as you go along. Ha Ha


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/raymonddix4

A curve ball if ever there was one. Would be impossible to translate for the learner


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SatharnPHL
Mod
  • 1451

How exactly is a learner supposed to learn anything new if they aren't introduced to material that they're unfamiliar with?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/clairelanc3

Can someone explain that phrase?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/J4eJ4mli

Is the 'ní mór' thing required here? There are also multiple words for playing (súgradh, imirt, seinm, spraoi, etc.).

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