Someone, please EXPLAIN when we use
beide and when
beiden. Because in previous example it was Ihr beide, bitte and now it is Hallo, ihr beiden. Why???
"please" indicates that the two people are addressed. "Ihr beiden" (accusative) would make them the object of a sentence but if you ask someone to do something, s/he is very likely to be the subject of the sentence. "Ihr beide" (nominative) should be okay. (from @kyky http://www.duolingo.com/comment/152149 )
Wouldn't the accusative include "euch?" The additional 'n' on "beide" nearly makes it looks dativ, but "ihr" is still nominative.
The best I can tell is that "beide" v. "beiden" is the difference between having an implied article or not, but I don't understand how that would affect use.
EDIT: http://www.german-grammar.de/grammar/chapter_29/29_3_5_beide.htm gives some good examples of "beide" v. "die beiden" in sentences, but I'm still not confident about the difference here. It seems that "beide" refers to two individuals, while "beiden" would refer to the pair.
Let me see if I understand:
You two (subject) please [shut up!] Therefore, beide.
Hello, [I am greeting] you two (object.) Therefore, beiden.
I think I got it.
This answer may be incorrect. I belief that Ihr beiden is in the dative position. The speaking is saying a hello to two people. The hello is the direct object (accusative case). The two people addressed are indirect objects (dative). Since they are two people it is the plural number. The dative plural form is "den." Thus beide takes an -en ending. Hence "beiden."
As JoblessOwl correctly notes above, it can't be dative because the pronoun would need to be dative too and be declined as “euch”. Here, “ihr” is a vocative expression, which in German takes the nominative. It has the same role as “John” in “I see you, John”, it is neither the subject or the object, it's just the addressee.
Please, correct me if I am wrong, but I understand, according to your explanation, that this is an example of vocative sentence which should be in nominative.
Nevertheless, it is "beiden" that is accepted, not "beide". I am a very beginner in German and my English level is just Intermediate. So, I am confused about why, at the same sentences, "ihr" should be in nominative case while "beiden" shoulden't. Thanks in advance for any clarification.
You are correct in your analysis, except for your assumption that “beiden” can't be nominative.
I don't know how much you've learnt about adjectival declension in German so far, but you're probably aware that there are two patterns of declension: weak and strong (and arguably a third one, mixed, but that's an unnecessary complexity to add to our analysis). Now, the nominative plural ending for those declensions are, respectively: -en and -e.
Normally, determining which ending to use is straightforward, but the adjective in this sentence is in an unusual position, i.e. modifying a personal pronoun, and there's no clear rule for which declension to use in this case.
As it turns out, the form with -n has become very common (according to some in this comment thread, so much more common than the other alternative that “ihr beide” as an address feels wrong to a native speaker), but, as Sasakiru points out below, the option without -n is still grammatical, and should be accepted (and should be reported where it isn't).
Out of curiosity, may I ask what your native language is? You have a nice combination of languages you're learning, and your English is quite good!
Vedo che stai imparando anche l'Italiano (la mia lingua madre). Buona fortuna! :)
Thank you so much, Ly-Mar for your helpful answer.
As I told you, I have just started to learn german, then I have no idea about patterns of decletion yet. Only a few rules about certain adjectives and pronouns (nominative and acusative). The good thing is that you avoided enter that garden and managed to adapt to my level!
Thanks again for your helpful explanation.
Salve Ly-Mar, Si, sto inparando italiano (da poco tempo), perchè adoro Italia, il più bello paese del mondo! E non lo dico per essere amabile con te, è proprio cosí.
Well, answering your question: I am Spanish.
Surprised at finding an italian helping anglophone people to learn german! Bravo!
Well, I'm paying forward all the help I received while learning German in this very course.
If I may offer corrections: “adoro
l'Italia” (names of nations take the definite article in Italian) and “il più
bel paese” (an irregularity in the declension of this particular adjective, it behaves like the definite article: bel cane, bell'uomo, bella donna, bell'età). Your Italian is impressive too!
¡España es un país muy lindo también! No fui allí muchas veces, pero Barcelona y Madrid me han gustado muchísimo.
Yo estudié un poco de Español en las escuelas medias, pero hacen muchos años ahora y mi fluidez se va perdiendo. ¡Qué lástima que no se pueden aprender todos los idiomas del mundo!
Danke schön for your corrections. Tu español sigue siendo muy bueno. Non lo lasciare !
Because there seems to be some confusion: You can say both "ihr beide" and "ihr beiden" as an address. If a sentence doesn't accept both, please report it.
Why can't it just be 'Hallo, ihr beide'? Or is it talking about more than one set of two, hence the plural?
Ihr beiden=>for friends or children(informal) Sie beide=>for strangers,old people(formal).......Hope this helps you out
That is the difference between Ihr and Sie. Beide is nomitive and Beiden is accusitive.
I get that. Thanks! But in the sentences, neither is uses Sie. Both use Ihr and yet one uses Beide and the other Beiden. Why is that?
it seems is by the declination: beide is for nominative and akkusative, beiden is in dative and beider in genitive sentences.
It is not really the declination - which would simply be:
Nom. "Ihr beide geht jetzt nach Hause!"
Gen. "Er ist doch euer beider Bruder!"
Dat. "Euch beiden will ich mal etwas sagen!"
Akk. "Euch beide muß ich loben!"
Nothing of this in "Hallo, ihr beiden" - this is certainly not a weird mixture of nominative and dative.
"Ihr beiden" could go on with another noun, e.g. "Hallo, ihr beiden Hübschen" in which case beiden would work like an adjective - but in "Hallo, ihr beiden" the "beiden" feels definitely like a noun. And people really say "Hallo, ihr beiden" rather than "Hallo, ihr beide" which sounds kind of incomplete.
I do not know any grammatical rule for describing this phenomenon.
ihr zwei totally works. I don't know about beide/beiden. Well, I know that beiden is correct in the sentence in question, but I can't tell you why ;-)
I don't understand why beiden would also work. The adjective ending for a noun that is plural/no article/nominative case is just "e", so I get why "beide" would work, but some commenters have stated that "beiden" is accusative case, but the adjective ending for plural/no article/accusative case is still "beide", so where did "beiden" come from? I'm ready to throw my computer out the window because of German adjective endings.
Please do not throw expensive technological equipment out of the window.
You are right that it doesn't make much sense if you think too hard about it. But sometimes, people just use the language in a wrong way, and if enough people do it, it somehow becomes accepted. If I had to take a wild guess, I would say that this is just a mix up of "hallo ihr beide" (nominative; "hello you two") and "hallo euch beiden" (dative; "hello to you two").
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beide#German This link has a very good explanation of beide(n)
Nominative Plural beide and Dative Plural beiden are strong declensions.
There is also weak/mixed declension that produces Nominative Plural beiden.
"Hallo, ihr beiden. " doesn't appear to be an incorrect mix up.
Nein! Nein! Es nicht an der Computer! Don't yet know if computer is masculine or feminine. Thought I'd give you all a laugh as I try to form an original sentence. AND. . . how is beide/beiden = two. I thought zwei was two. Himmel!
Kill me. Kill me now. I thought that I could learn German without learning grammer, just like I learnt English. I wanted to construct sentences because it feels right rather than thinking about the nuances of grammar. But that seems like a dream now.
I worked it out from reading traffic road closure info:
"....in beiden Richtungen Behinderung" = "In both direction congestion/hindrance."
Hello, [to] you both
"Hello, [to] you both," in addition to sakasiru's contribution above, helped me finally reach an understanding between "beide" and "beiden"
This is a very poor lesson indeed. Several major new words are introduced without explaining how and why they should be conjugated. And these are 'Descriptive' pronouns, NOT 'Nominative'.
"ihr" is the address for multiple "you"s (= "you all", 2nd person plural) here. It only exists in this form for this function.
"ihr/ihre" can also be the possessive pronoun for 3rd person singular feminine (="her") and for 3rd person plural (="their"). The ending depends on the gender of the following noun:
der Hund (masculine) - ihr Hund
die Katze (feminine) - ihre Katze
das Kaninchen (neuter) - ihr Kaninchen
die Hunde (plural) - ihre Hunde
there are more forms for the different cases.
"beide" and "beiden" are just different cases of "both":
beide is nominative (beide Männer- both men (as subject))
beider is genitive (beider Männer - of both men)
beiden is dative (beiden Männern - to both men)
beide is accussative (beide Männer - both men (as direct object))
Yes, it's "Hi" or "Hey". I've seen it many times on TV when they were advertising a HD broadcast of a channel. They just had lots of people saying [Hello] "Hi"/"Hey", rather than Hoch for High. I think they are becoming more English in modern and technological things especially. HD TV is Hi-Def, from High-Definition (highly defined, sharp clear exact images). It should be Hochauflösende (High resolution), but it isn't so they go with the English term.
Why is it beiden and not zwei? Are they both acceptable, or is beiden a special word used for people only?
I think other replies have said it's fine to use zwei but I think formally you would use beiden. (I'm not native, nor very good at German, but that's what others have implied!!)
In English, can you say "you both"? I heard "both of you", but would like to know if both are right
When addressing the two, "you both" doesn't work. You can only say "you two". However in other contexts, "you both" is fine. For example: "We want you both". BUT: "Hello, you two!"
It's sad. I can't get excercises with full hearts because of these listenings. I cannot get if the word is "Ihr" or "Er", frustrating.
I usually concentrate on the other words to determine which would be the correct option.
When do we use "Ihr beiden" and "Sie beide"? Ps. answer in such a way that it is easily understood.Thanks
In this context, "Ihr beiden" is for friends or children (informal), while "Sie beide" would be for strangers/older people and other contexts, where you'd use the polite form of address.
I believe the question was about the usage of "beide" and "beiden". Why the difference?
Because it refers to multiple people you know well (or who are children). And if it didn't and you wanted to use a polite form, you'd use "Sie" in this construction, not "Ihr".
Zwei VS Beiden. E.g1 : Hallo, ihr zwei! - ONLY Just two of more than two people. E.g2 : Hallo, ihr beiden! - All people of two people.
How could you possibly use "Du" which refers to ONE SINGULAR PERSON and "beiden" (TWO people) in this construction? Unless you're drunk and seeing two people where there's, in fact, only one... ;-)
Why is 'ihr' not capitalised in this sentence when referring to you? Someone said in another comment that it's not capitalised because it's likely referring to people you are well acquainted with, but why not then use 'euer'? After all, 'euer' is the plural form of the informal 'you'. Why is it that 'ihr' is being used as the informal plural here?
No, "euer" is not the plural form of you. It's the possessive of the plural from of you: "your". It doesn't fit here at all. The informal plural you pronoun is "ihr".
Is there any reason that you could not translate ihr beide to be "both of you" in a generalized sort of way, like you would say if you were among a group a friends and you had to pick two of them randomly to do something...
Then ihr beiden to be translated as "[to] both of you" in a more direct way, like you would say if speaking directly to someone...
On a slightly different note...I thought to mean "you" Ihr was written with a capital I, and for "her" ihr was written with a small i. As in, Ihr versus ihr. So, if we were to say "you two" and "her two", would they both be written the same way, i.e. "ihr beiden?" Thanks :-)
Any pronoun with a capital is the formal you. The personal pronoun for this is "Sie", the possessive pronoun for it is "Ihr". It works exactly like sie = they, just with a capitalization:
sie betreten ihr Haus = they enter their house
Sie betreten Ihr Haus = you(formal) enter your(formal) house.
"sie" is also the personal pronoun for third person singular feminine, "she". The possessive pronoun is also "ihr". But you usually can see the difference easily because third person singular has a different verb form:
sie betritt ihr Haus = she enters her house
Now there is a third form of "ihr", and that's the personal pronoun for plural you. The possessive pronoun for this form is "euer":
ihr betretet euer Haus = you(plural) enter your(plural) house
Okay so far? So now to your question, a possessive pronoun will get a flection depending on the noun it refers to. Since "beide" is plural, you would say "ihre beiden" for "her two" and "Ihre beiden" for "your(formal) two", while "ihr beiden" definitely is the personal pronoun plural you = "you two".
Thanks. I think I've got it, but I'll re-read it a few times. Yes, so it's you (familiar) plural. Danke sehr, Sakasiru. Hilfreich, wie immer :-)
Probably just me but "hallo" in this sentence freaked me out a bit. Pronunciation dragged too long, might be why.
I hate that it wont accept anything other than "hello" as the english spelling. In various English texts, over my lifetime, I have seen hello, hallo, hullo. And it isn't as though I am trying to learn ENGLISH here!!!
I wrote Hallo instead of Hello.. ? I've always been told that in english both are ok!
No native English speaker would say that. It's either "Hello (to) the two of you", or "Hello, you two!"
I like "Hello, two of you". It sounds funny. And I can almost think a situation to use it... But then again, I'm not native speaker.
How to write the word 'groB' the last alphabet is different. What does it mean and how to write it
That moment when you weren't able to hear the difference between Er and Ihr...
I'm not and I don't think I should. It's standard practice to use a comma after "hi", "hello" or similar interjections.
Is there a difference in pronunciation between 'Ihr' and 'Er', because I'm struggling to find it.
Ihr sounds similar to the english of "ear" in the word "Hear" and Er sounds similar to the english to "air" in "Hair".
There is definately subtle differences to that of my explaination. But it is a start.
That is because they are, in fact, pronounced quite similarly. The only difference is the “w” at the beginning (making what an English speaker might describe “a ‘v’ sound”) in “wir”.
So is "Ihr" used when directly talking to someone? Like if you run into some friends in town square you would say "Hallo, ihre beide"?
In danish (I'm pretty sure it's the same in German) ihr beiden is something a mother or some other parental figure would commonly say to two children.
‘Beide’ means ‘both’: the phrase ‘ihr beiden’ unambiguously means ‘you two’, not ‘you people’.
Is it just me who keeps hearing "ihr beid" from the male voice? I can't hear anything after the d-stop. 15 May 2019
Edit: the female voice clearly says "beiden"
Can someone help me to know what form I should use when it is aimed at a verb. For example, Everybody need water. And why should I use that form
Highly Betsy sci be tv veggie us they b CTF HDB hj nick ksh df DJ ham MN c Xbox
i would never say this in english. Duolingo you have some VERY VERY bad translators. A greeting would be: Hello guys or hey guys.
I wrote hello both as this is how it would be said in English, not hello you both!
I don't know What is nominative and accusative ??:( Any help plssss I read it but didn't get it right :(
I can't agree with this. It should be "Hallo, Ihr beide" and not "Hallo, Ihr beiden". If you use the 2nd plural personal pronoun, Ihr, then it mean it's nominative, as in fact is (or Vocative, but German is not Latin). By using "Beiden," you are implying it is accusative, but in this case, you should use "Euch". So which of the two? This is the one and only point.
- words * is for bold, words is for italics, _ words _ is for underline?
No, it should be "two". The person speaking is saying hello to two people.
One of the possible translations should be ‘hello, both of you’, however ‘hello to both of you’ would definitely be incorrect: it would need to be translated with dative, hence yielding ‘hallo euch beiden’ (in and of itself a perfectly fine sentence, but quite different from the one presented here).
If your complaint concerns the use of ‘two’ to translate ‘beide’, then know that the usage of ‘beide’ and ‘both’ isn't exactly the same and that there are many instances where an English speaker would use ‘two’ and a German speaker ‘beide’, and this is one of them.
Struggled with this because it sounds like the speaker blows into the microphone. Could do with a clearer recording.