1. Forum
  2. >
  3. Topic: Turkish
  4. >
  5. "This event led to a crisis b…

"This event led to a crisis between two countries."

Translation:Bu olay iki ülke arasında bir krize neden oldu.

April 30, 2015

64 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookrabbit

How do you decide which order the words go in? I got the beginning and the end but jumbled the middle.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ektoraskan

If you want to write a sentence that is neutral (and I don't mean 'natural'; I mean a sentence where nothing is particularly stressed) Try to follow these three rules:

1) Start the sentence with the subject, end it with the verb.

2) If you have accusative and dative at the same time, it's: accusative first, dative later.

3) words that are more closely related should be together. For example, if you have an accusative/dative and a time expression at the same time, put the accusative/dative closer to the verb: they're more related.

4) Eveything else comes after the subject.

So you have: Subject + everything else + accusative + dative + verb.

In your exercise: This event led to a crisis between two countries.

Subject: This event → Bu olay (our first element in the sentence).

Verb: led → neden oldu (our last element).

Dative: to a crisi → bir krize (should be near the verb)

We don't have an accusative.

So far: Bu olay bir krize neden oldu.

Everything else should come after the subject: Bu olay "everything else" bir krize neden oldu.

Our "everything else" is "between two countries", which is "iki ülke arasında".


So how would you say: "I gave the book to Bookrabbit yesterday after school." ? :)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/orde90

Perfect explanation. I would like to draw attention to something else.

You can take the part iki ülke arasında bir krize (to a crisis between two countries) as a prepositional phrase. As there are prepositions in English, Turkish has postpositions, and they come before nouns by behaving like any adjective.

Therefore an alternative solution would be;
Subject: Bu olay
Object: iki ülke arasında bir krize
Verb: neden oldu

So we have 1 subject (S), 1 indirect object (O) and 1 verb (V), and Turkish is a SOV language. Guess what to do next..


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookrabbit

It was the order of that phrase that I had trouble wıth. Basıcly ıt has the opposıte order of the Englısh sentence. Is that typıcal? Because of the reverse order of ımportance?

I fınd ıt confusıng to remember postposıtıons comıng fırst! Sadly grammatıcal terms just don't stıck in my mind. I remember better in less technical terms. And hopefully it wıll begın to flow at some poınt. I'm sure most turkısh people don't walk around thınkıng ın terms of datıve or accusatıve before they say somethıng.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/orde90

Yes it's the opposite order. First of all, since arasında (between) is a postposition it goes after the noun unlike English.

between two countries -> iki ülke arasında

Secondly, in Turkish everything that acts like adjectives (prepositional phrases, adjective clauses) comes before nouns. So we have it like

a crisis between two countries -> iki ülke arasında bir kriz


Yes we don't walk around like that but we have a more weird tendency like saying the most important thing at the latest. Verbs are the most important part of the sentences so we put them at the very end. And we usually put the most second important thing that we want to emphasize just before the verb. So the thing before the verb is kind of emphasized.

Ektoraskan's explanation is very true indeed because we also have neutral form (without emphasizing anything) that we use in writing. And this form is like

Subject + Subordinate clause + Locative + Accusative + Ablative + Dative + Adverb + Nominative + Verb

This is actually like the common sense of emphasizing and word order in Turkish. Ablative (from) and dative (to) represent the direction of the motion (verb) and it's the most important part. After the direction, the next important thing is the object that is exposed to the motion. After that the situation and other details of the object or motion come.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/padm915118

I am not so good in grammer myself but almost a year of duo lingo turkish, and daily practice of a least one lesson later, I have picked up most of the sentence structure and most times I just feel that a particular order doesn't sound right. I have in the process picked up a lot of grammer terms too, which did not seem to make much sense back in school but now it does, thanks to the patients of the moderators and my fellow turkish students.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/angel276537

Eķtoraskan , thank you very much for perfect explanation . That was really helpfull .And thanks a lot for the time you spend .


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/dieprinzessin

Really great explanation. Sen bana çok yardım ediyorsun.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookrabbit

Subject : Ben

Verb: verdim

Acc: kitabı

I'm very fuzzy about technical grammatical terms, so beyond that I struggle to label things. I'm of the repeat untıl ıt sounds rıght school of language learnıng.

I thınk ıt should be:

Ben okulda sonra kitabı KitapTavşana verdim.

But I'm not at all sure about the ending on the school.

What I really would like to know ıs whether place or tıme should come fırst. I understand that the most ımportant posıtıon ıs just before the verb so crıtıcal words should go there.

Thanks for answerıng:)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ektoraskan

okuldaN sonra. Your sentence is correct. If you were to include "dün" (yesterday), it would come before "okuldan sonra". Because of the flow of the events: First you tell us which day it was, then proceed by telling us which part of the day: after school:

Ben dün okuldan sonra kitabı Bookrabbit'e verdim.

If you have an adverb of place, put it after the time expression:

Ben dün okuldan sonra burada kitabı Bookrabbit'e verdim.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sternchen.2306

Why not ülkenin arasında? Doesn't "ara" take Genitiv?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bookrabbit

Oops missed the yesterday. I miss words too often:~

Okay, so time then place. That really helps. Same as German too:)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Wouldn't it be "KitapTavşanına"?

"book rabbit" = "kitap tavşanı" with possessive -ı to make it a two-word compound, and then buffer -n- before the dative case ending?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ektoraskan

Well, why not. :-] Since it's a name, it's hard to tell the exact relation between book and rabbit.

  • If the OP has chosen "Book rabbit" to mean "A rabbit that belongs to a certain book," then your "kitap tavşanı" translation is correct.

  • If the name means "A rabbit that happens to be a book," then the book is an adjective, so there is no possessive meaning to it, and "kitap tavşan" will be more accurate. (Just like how you would translate "white rabbit" as "beyaz tavşan".)

For example "Spiderman" is "Örümcek adam." No possessives despite two nouns following one another, because it's not a man that belongs to a spider, but rather a man that also happens to be a spider.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/JRMjeroen

Great explanation! Çok teşekkür ederim!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AmiraMosta406002

That was a perfect explanation that make a lot of things clear thanks a lot


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/angel276537

What is the role of "neden "in this sentence and why does it not make the sentence in question form .?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

neden here is a noun meaning "cause" or "reason", and neden olmak together means something like "cause, lead to" (literally, "become a reason, become a cause").


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Zesul

Shouldn't it be ülkenin arasında instead of ülke arasında?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/bodilgr

So many people has asked this question without getting an answer.

I think of it like this: if 'between' is about a physical space you need the genitive-possessive, e.g. 'İki ülkenin arasında bir deniz var.'

In this sentence we have to do with an abstract 'between' and that's why the genitive is not needed.

Is my logic correct? I hope so :)

2020/05/13


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CayAr

A compound? Maybe it is because "the (abstract) space" (ARA) between the two countries doesn't belong to them. I would like an answer too. :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/vfurmanov

I may be completely misremebering the postpositions lesson, but why is it "ülke" and not "ülkenin"? Does the noun preceding "sırasında" not need to be in genetive?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jzlcdh

Why is it "krize" and not "kriz" please?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

"to lead to something" - here "to something" is a dative object in Turkish. In other words, the verb "yol açmak" requires a dative object


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jzlcdh

Hızlıcı ve faydalı cevablarınız için çok teşekkür ederim Selcen Hoca.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

bir şey değil :) (*HIZLI ve faydalı cevaPlarınız)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/zayd.boon

What purpose does neden serve in the sentance? "... bir krize yol açtı" makes more sense to me.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NovruzJavadov

Does Turkish not have the word "hadise"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

we have but it is outdated and used rarely. and it means "event" rather than a crisis


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/NovruzJavadov

Yeah, I was referring to the word event as well =) It didn't accept my answer when I had everything the same except "hadise" (used in Azerbaijani) instead of "olay". But good to know


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

oops yes event is also in the sentence :D it can be accepted, everyone will understand you but few people will actually use it


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BryanKeith5

Shouldn't "Bu olaydan dolayı iki ülke arasında kriz oldu." also be accepted as a correct answer?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Selcen_Ozturk

"kriz oldu" doesn't sound natural. ve say "kriz çıktı"


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BryanKeith5

Teşekkürler, Selcen.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cooklincait

Why is it bu olay and not bu olayı?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Because "bu olay" is the subject of the sentence, and subjects never stand in the accusative case.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/cooklincait

OH, duhhhh. I'm stupid. Thanks!


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/UteHummert3

never say that ! :-)


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/SunFlyingKite

Neden means why. Bu neden oldu. Why did this happen


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Neden means why

That is indeed one meaning of the word, though not the meaning that neden has in this sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MajdALAMI

I was confused by expression "neden oldu" because translation "neden" is "why ?" and "oldu" is " it was" So please why the mean of "neden oldu" = "caused" ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

I was confused by expression "neden oldu" because translation "neden" is "why ?" and "oldu" is " it was"

neden here is "reason" (a noun), oldu is "it became"

it became a reason = it caused

olmak is more commonly "become" than "be" -- "it was" is most often simply -di on the appropriate predicate (noun or adjective).


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MajdALAMI

Thanks for your response.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Ima-Ne

is saying "iki tane ülke" wrong ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Georgia421106

I am sorry there is no why in the sentence. It's not a question. Why is it wrong?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/da_planet

Why is the neden needed?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lew-

to cause / to lead to = neden olmak. it is a part of a verb compound here, not a question word. Olmak has a different meaning on its own: be, become, happen.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Eh.E.A

Bu olay iki devlet arasında bir kirze neden oldu. isn't that right ?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/redactedname721

This event was the reason to a crisis between two countries.. Literal translation


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/v.ivanov

"This situation is why the crisis between the two countries was". Very beautiful indeed, love Turkish for sentences like this one.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Beebu6

Why use neden " it means why and there is no such thing in the english sentence


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

Why use neden

This has been explained before on this page.

Have you read all of the comments?

it means why

Not in this sentence.

It's a noun here.

Words can have more than one meaning.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Tyrkiskkurs

I do not understand the function of "neden" in this sentence? I thougth "neden" is used to make a question?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/jborcic

Why "neden oldu"? There is no question in the English sentence.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MartenDKgyQ

The way I remember and explain "neden oldu" is trying to understand the literal meaning. "Neden oldu" is somewhat close to "why happened" bir krize neden oldu = why a crysis happened. So by analogy I memorize the expression. But isnt it actually another expression closer to "lead"? For example "yol açar"?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lily532030

The English translation is a statement and the turkish translation is a question how????


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alex261558

English question is not in the form of asking but turkish translation is in the question form, neden oldu?

Why is this?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

turkish translation is in the question form

No, it isn't.

Please read all of the comments on this page.


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Alex261558

English sentence is not in question form but turkish is in question form, neden oldu? Not correct


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/mizinamo

turkish is in question form

No, it isn't. Please read all of the comments on the sentence discussion before posting a new one.

(And if you're using a mobile app that doesn't show you the existing comments, please stop using it -- it is not helping you.)

Also... you asked this question one week ago already. Why did you ask it again? Why didn't read the answer that you got that time?


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/adham344683

Neden oldu? There is no question


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Samia732007

your query is already explained in the comments above!

Learn Turkish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.