"I have more than him."

Translation:Tá níos mó agam ná é.

3 years ago

23 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/YVONNEMCALEER

I strongly feel my answer 'tá níos mó agamsa ná atá aige' sounds much more natural than the prescribed answer. I don't think the translation really makes sense in Irish. If a pupil in my class wrote this I would correct it as a mistake.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Rewjeo
Rewjeo
  • 20
  • 12
  • 11
  • 10
  • 7
  • 6
  • 6
  • 4
  • 1278

Is it wrong to use aige instead of é, or is that just more like "I have more than he has"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1537

It would be wrong to use ná aige to mean ná é (and vice versa). Ná é means only “than him” (i.e. “him” is among all that I have), and ná aige means only “than he (has)”.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nina462140
Nina462140
  • 20
  • 13
  • 11
  • 10
  • 6
  • 3

In American English tha vast majority of the time one says "I have more than him" what's meant is "I have more than he does." Even it were "it" instead of "him" the sentence would more likely mean "I have more than it does". If one were trying to say "I have more than just it" one would likelier say "I have more than that".

So when the lesson asks for "I have more than him" in Irish, should the answer Tá níos mó agam ná aige be considered a correct answer, or not? Because right now, it's marked incorrect.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1537

In English, “I have more than it” would be ambiguous, since there’s no context to determine whether “it” is nominative or not; in that case, all of na é, na í, na aige, and na aici should be accepted for its Irish translation on Duolingo. “He” vs. “him” has the pronoun’s case to distinguish whether it’s nominative or not, so in my view ná aige in an isolated sentence should not be treated as a correct translation of “than him”. However, if the English sentence were found in context showing that “than him” was unmistakably used with a meaning of “than he (has)”, then ná aige should be considered correct and ná é should be considered incorrect.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nina462140
Nina462140
  • 20
  • 13
  • 11
  • 10
  • 6
  • 3

American informal usage in this case makes irrelevant the fact that "him" is in the objective case, when in formal mode it should rightly be in the subjective case. Usage trumps rules. In informal mode saying "I have more than he" would sound awkward and pedantic.

As such, without context I'd be inclined to always view "than him" in that sentence as meaning "than he does" as the likelihood anyone would mean they own more than just owning him is very uncommon. The only situation I can think of where that statement wouldn't be deeply offensive is in reference to pets.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/PookaGar
PookaGar
  • 18
  • 16
  • 14
  • 13
  • 13
  • 11
  • 10
  • 7

A bit after the fact, and I don't want to get dragged into the debate, but I agree with airy3que that when I, as an AmEng speaker, see "I have more than him", my first interpretation of that sentence is also to read "him" as "[he does]". Following scilling's post, I gather this would be ná aige, but DL seems to be following the prescriptive standard on this question, for better or for worse, meaning that ná é should be used.

There is a lot of dialect inconsistency in the course, leading to ambiguities for some learners and not others, so if you think your answer should be accepted -- like so many of the other questions where Americanisms are accepted -- flag it as such. The distinction between the two is clearer in Irish, and prescriptive English, than in American.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1537

If usage trump rules, why are you concerned about whether it should be considered a correct answer or not? Wouldn’t your usage trump all rules that contradict your usage?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nina462140
Nina462140
  • 20
  • 13
  • 11
  • 10
  • 6
  • 3

I'm talking very clearly about American informal usage. Not my personal usage.

And I'd like to learn how to translate into Irish "I have more than him" as it is most commonly understood to mean "I have more than he does". I'd like to do so in a way that conforms to Irish usage. Look, all prescriptivism aside, does Tá níos mó agam ná aige mean "I have more than he does" or doesn't it?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1537

There is no context in this exercise that identifies it as being informal US English, which is why I’d prefaced my first reply to you about this exercise with “in my view”. Does your description of the sound of “I have more than he” not reflect your personal opinion?

My reply above to Rewjeo explained what ná aige means; the Irish usage is distinct, and it’s precisely because of that distinction that I believe that it’s best to also make the distinction in English here, so that people who use “than him” for “than he” in English will learn that the phrase’s literal translation into Irish would be incorrect.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nina462140
Nina462140
  • 20
  • 13
  • 11
  • 10
  • 6
  • 3

If the phrase's literal translation is incorrect, then why are you advocating for it?

As it stands, teaching American students the ná é sentence will be giving them incorrect information, because it does nothing to explicitly specify that it doesn't mean "than he does" which is what most American would mean when they said than him.

Duolingo resorts to informal mode constantly, so objecting to it doesn't make much sense.

But again: does Tá níos mó agam ná aige mean "I have more than he does"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1537

Why do you believe that I’m advocating that ná aige should be used for “than him”? “The phrase’s literal translation” refers to the “than him” phrase, which is the informal US English phrase that we’ve been discussing.

If you believe that the distinction between ná é and ná aige needs to be explicitly drawn for US students, then use the Report a Problem button to bring it to the attention of the course creators, since only they can do anything about the course’s content.

Again, please refer to my reply to Rewjeo above; the meaning is there.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nina462140
Nina462140
  • 20
  • 13
  • 11
  • 10
  • 6
  • 3

What I saw was Rewjeo asking a question and it not being answered. So, again: does Tá níos mó agam ná aige mean "I have more than he does"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1537

The question asked was “is it wrong to use aige rather than é” — the answer to that question is in the reply.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nina462140
Nina462140
  • 20
  • 13
  • 11
  • 10
  • 6
  • 3

I see an answer that limited itself to the fact that ná é and ná aige aren't interchangeable in Irish. But my question was about the entire sentence, not about elements within the sentence. So again: does Tá níos mó agam ná aige mean "I have more than he does"? Is the entire sentence constructed correctly? Are all the words where they should be and as they should be for the Irish sentence to mean "I have more than he does"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1537

The second sentence in that answer did not limit itself to their lack of interchangeability; it explains what each part would mean within the entire sentence. One can exchange ná é for ná aige in that sentence to replace the meaning of ná é with the meaning of ná aige, and the sentence with that replacement will still be correctly formed.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/larryone
larryone
  • 23
  • 18
  • 14
  • 6
  • 1155

I tried "tá agam níos mó ná é". Failed.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
  • 25
  • 1537

Níos mó is the subject of the Irish sentence, so it needs to directly follow the verb; Irish word order is VSO (verb, subject, object).

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/danoconnell55
danoconnell55
  • 15
  • 14
  • 13
  • 9
  • 7
  • 6
  • 5
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2

I can't seem to get the grammar. Does anyone have a suggested resource outside of duolingo for Irish grammar?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/danoconnell55
danoconnell55
  • 15
  • 14
  • 13
  • 9
  • 7
  • 6
  • 5
  • 3
  • 3
  • 2
  • 2

Go raibh maith agat!

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Maggie81257

The more correct English phrase would be " I have more than he (the "has" being implicit). Therefore just wondering if the same would apply in Irish i.e. Tá níos mó agam ná aige?. Maybe not, just curious.

9 months ago

https://www.duolingo.com/KiwiPavlova

Tá níos mó agam ná mar atá aige - totally agree with Yvonne. The other version sounds as though I have more (people, slaves?!) than him - that he is one of my many possessions!

9 months ago
Learn Irish in just 5 minutes a day. For free.