then i must be the only violent one here who thought that he loads a gun and marches out there..
You are correct. As one who has loaded and gone in several different scenarios including yours, I must say that this sentence makes sense to me and to anyone who was in similar situations to those that I was in.
He loaded and left and he is going to load and leave are both grammatically correct and commonplace expressions. What's different about the Duo example is that it is placed in the present tense.
I am aware that many of the Duo students are sufficiently advanced that they feel restrained by Duo's focus on the present tense, but for many of us that simplified approach to French is helping us to learn. There will come a time when I will have to learn to use the other 42 different common verb endings but for now I am happy to deal with the awkward sentences imposed by using only the 6 present tense forms.
42? really? I have counted 78 for verb "charger" alone (6 persons x 13 tenses)?
Daunting isn't it, but it's not as though you have to learn them all as a giant list, you just pick up new persons/tenses as you read, talk, learn and listen in French.
Right. That's why I'm happy to see Duo maintaining focus on the present tense until a certain level of competency is reached.
In fairness, a good deal of them are easy enough to remember, such as the future tense essentially being the infinitive with « avoir » tacked onto the end. Nobody uses the passé simple outside of literature so you just need to recognise it. That really just leaves the subjunctives amongst the awkward squad, and the big issue there is knowing when to use it.
No, I meant « avoir ».
« aller » followed by the infinitive is the Futur Proche (near future).
The true future tense is (generally) formed by tacking the following endings onto the (stemmed) infinitive of the verb: (je) -ai, (tu) -as, (il/elle) -a, (nous) -ons, (vous), -ez, (ils/elles) -ont.
And here's an example: je parlerai, tu parleras, il/elle parlera, nous parlerons, vous parlerez, ils/elles parleront.
Compare that with the present tense of avoir: (je) ai, (tu) as, (il/elle) a, (nous) avons, (vous) avez, (ils/elles) ont.
As you can see, the endings for the future tense are almost identical to avoir in the present tense, albeit with av- dropped from the first and second person plurals, thus my comment.
Once you notice patterns like that, verb conjugation in French becomes much simpler.
@NikBruce - Its the same written pattern, but also highlights the similarity in oral pronunciation of some conjugated verbs i.e. Je, tu, il/elle sound the same.
So in reality, when speaking the language you won't think "ok so this conjugates to that and that conjugates to this", you'll just remember the similar sounding verbs and use them interchangeably with each pronoun. That's in itself a pattern and minimises the need to memorise thousands of conjugated verbs in some tenses.
Maybe I haven't explained clearly, if so I apologise. In which case its best to appeal to others for ideas.
No, I think he (talideon) was actually talking about the future tense conjugations with the infitive + avoir endings as in:
Manger(ai, ra.. etc)
Sauter(ai, ra.. etc)
Marcher(ai, ra.. etc)
And so on. Or at least I think that's what he meant.
@NikBruce: "Have you noticed any other patterns or useful things?"
There are a few noticeable patterns when it comes to speaking. A lot of those conjugations discussed above sound similar. Here's a good example illustrated by Alexa Polidoro
Ya, I understood what you meant after Runakom pointed it out. I makes things so much easier! Thanks! Have you noticed any other patterns or useful things?
@Runakom - I get what talideon was talking about, I was just speculating about NikBruce's comment. All good.
I was thinking of the more common ones that some French classes throw in the mix early in the course.
Most of the students are advanced? I feel that I'm not in their league. I'm just trying to learn French. Only had a small amount of French in school. So please bear with me if I ask questions that may seem very foolish to others.
No, not most of the students. Just many, which includes those who are further along the tree.
I can assure you, that when you get halfway up the tree and come back to early lessons for review, you will find them quite simple, even obvious, and wonder how you could ever have been confused about any of the examples.
There are many good reasons to come back for review of early lessons but one of them is to remind yourself of how far you have progressed. Whenever I hit something that makes me think I'm never going to get it straight, I just go back and redo the whole tree reading all the comments. Then, when I catch up and hit the insurmountable obstacle, it somehow doesn't seem so big after all.
Thank you so much for this info. I didn't know you could go back and redo things. One learns something everyday.
Make sure you read the comments when you do review. You will find that some of the comments that went over your head or seemed irrelevant to your needs at the time suddenly seem very useful.
This reminds me of the classic sentences used to teach the need for commas. They are about two panda bears. The first eats shoots and leaves. The second--the one with the criminal tendencies--eats, shoots, and leaves.
The first time I read it I thought it might be a phrase about electronics, like 'plug and play.'
I was thinking of loading software or a video game, so I answered "it loads and there it goes!" It worked.
You may imagine a context where someone says : "John's truck is expected in Paris", Then the answer would make sense, wouldn't it?
it would make more sense if the answer was "He loads HIS TRUCK and he goes", without it, it's strange and awkward in English
It is more the repetition of the (English) pronoun in such a short space which is causing it to sound odd, I think. At least that is the problem to my ears.
:) now I understand the sense! It is familiar to me because in italian we say "Prende e va", literally "Il prend et il y va" with the same sense :D
sorry, I guess I am the only one who didn't get this. Why "il y va and not il va"?
verb "aller" always an indication of "where to", it cannot be used alone. So at minimum you add "y", which means "to there".
So why was ' he loads and there he goes' wrong? Y (there) provides the destination! He sees the enemy hiding behind the brush and without hesitation he loads and there he goes after them to the cheers from his fellows.
Haha, good try. "There he goes..." could just be a way of saying he's off. The "there" in your proposition doesn't denote destination. Even if you said "And, there, he goes" it would still be more confusing than saying "he goes there" i.e. to a previously mentioned destination or somewhere which is known by the speaker..
How can I know that since il in French can mean both He and It? Probably context again?
I'm afraid you indeed would need context, but then I promise it becomes obvious!
wouldnt the more accurate translation be "he loads and he goes there"? i feel like in the translation it should be implied that he has an aim which "y" signifies. if youd say "he loads and he goes" couldnt it just be "il charge et il va"?
Word for word translations do not always work. That is the case here where "he goes" can work perfectly whereas in French "il va" does not work, because verb "aller" needs a destination.
so, "he goes" = "il y va".
can't answer to your latest post there but thank you! how do you call the verbs that need a destination used with them? i'd like to look up a list of them if possible but i have no idea what to google. thanks in advance if you get around to answer this :-)
To be honest with you, I don't know what those verbs are called. They are not many, since they imply a movement from one place to the other. I can think of "se rendre à":
- il se rend à Paris - il s'y rend.
I have the same question as Fairlie.
One of the correct sentences offered by Duo is "It charges and then it goes". I am wondering where then came from?
I am also wondering why "It charges and there (instead of then) it goes" is not accepted?
I understood what you've said about a destination always being needed in french, even if the word, there, is not translated.
But, are you saying that translating the word, there, will always be wrong in this context?
I wrote "He loads and he goes there." It was accepted. I think it would be great if anyone who really believes that Duo is wrong should send in a correction....otherwise, it is correct in their estimation.
I can't answer the second half of your question but on the topic of why "then" is accepted by "there" is not I will venture an answer. The English sentence "he/it charges and he/it goes is procedural, the first action is completed before the second is commenced. The conjunction "and" emphasises the presence of a procedure but does not add any actual information. The preposition "there" adds a previously non-existent destination which slightly changes the meaning and adds new information, ergo it is unacceptable.
Alright, I've come to the conclusion that the phrase "Il y va" is idiomatic and that is why the word there is not translated.
Idiomatic French Expressions with Aller
Y - French Adverbial Pronoun ~ Pronom adverbial
If I am wrong about the phrase being idiomatic, someone let me know, please! :-)
I suppose it is idiomatic but that's not the reason for "y" being there. It represents in this case a location which is known to both speakers, as in this example: "The Eiffel Tower? Lets go (there)". Yes we don't need the "there" in English but it's necessary in French as "Aller" has to have a destination. So "y" in this case replaces "The Eiffel tower".
Merci, Wunel. Your explanation makes sense and is very helpful.
Also, I re-read the previous comments (especially Sitesurf's comment: "he goes" = "il y va") and I think the answer to my second question is yes; it will always be wrong to add the word, there.
Another hurdle conquered; I wonder what today will bring?!
I also said "and there he goes" and it was considered incorrect. I also don't understand where the "then" comes into this. How did duo translate it to "and then he goes?" Is it a tense thing from the verb? I never took French in school, I just lived in France, so I'm not formally trained.
I should also mention, that I did write the full sentence, "He loads and there he goes" and it was considered incorrect.
Oh, Someone answered below. I am happy. :) I should have read the whole tread before commenting. Sorry!
Think of it as a line in a story. A truck driver is told to load a truck with an overweight amount of hazardous material that hasn't the necessary permit. The truck is old and prone to breakdown. The steering is poor, the brakes are worn out. The required route, which is down steep, switchback, poorly maintained, mountain roads, is dangerous at the best of times. Current conditions require driving at night on ice covered roads in heavy fog.
The driver points all this out to the boss who angrily tells him to get going or he will lose his job. The driver hesitates and thinks about how badly he needs the job, and then...and then...and then...he loads and he goes.
Always a pleasure to read from you, Northernguy!
Un conducteur de poids lourd reçoit l'ordre de charger un camion avec une énorme quantité de matières dangereuses pour lesquelles il n'a pas de permis. Le camion est vieux et au bord de la panne. La direction bat de l'aile, les freins sont au bout du rouleau. La route est pentue, escarpée, en mauvais état, les routes de montagne sont dangereuses à tout moment. Il faut conduire de nuit sur le verglas dans un épais brouillard. Le conducteur le fait remarquer au patron qui lui rétorque qu'il doit y aller sinon il va perdre son boulot. Le chauffeur hésite et pense à quel point il a besoin de cet emploi, et alors... et alors... et alors... il charge et il y va.
I wrote 'he charges and goes there', which made me laugh because 'to charge' (as we say in pidgin English) is to be extremely annoyed. I pictured a man who comes home to find that a mortal enemy has offended him. He will fume and, if he is strong, proceed to the offender's home or workplace. LOL
It would also work in English to say he charges himself with a few drinks before before proceeding to the offender's workplace. In fact, you could say he gets loaded before .....
In the context of your story, the sentence makes sense. But without the backstory, in the context of the Duolingo lesson, the sentence did not make sense.
Y can mean there. It can also mean a lot of other things depending on usage. The biggest thing y does is replace something from another context. As such it can end up being used for a lot of things including using it as there to to refer to another context. French often requires an acknowledgement of another context where English does not.
In English, you can say ..I'm going... and everyone knows whether you are talking about leaving where you are or if you are talking about going to somewhere else. In French, there has to be at least some acknowledgement of what your context is. Y is one of the words that does this. Many times there is a context that y can indicate even if it seems completely unnecessary to do so to an English speaker.
There are a multitude of rules that govern when to use y to show different contexts and when to use something else. Duo will introduce these various usages one by one. They started with the common application of y as there.
Isn't is supposed to be 'et il s'en va'? I thought 'il y va' could only be used as 'he goes' when the destination is known or mentioned before.
Perhaps read the thread carefully again, but aller requires a destination. Il y va is saying he goes (there). "y" is the destination which is sort of implied in English, but is necessary in French.
The question I have is about "il s'en va". Doesn't that mean " it goes"? Does it also mean "he goes"? Therefore, how does it differ from "il y va"? I don't mean to be thick about this but "en" and "y" confuse me.
Thank you again. What a clever little word. Site clarifies....just have to remember.
Thank you for your comment, but you are talking about a different situation.
If a place had previously been mentioned, then y would replace the name of the place, yes.
However, since there is no previously mentioned place in this sentence, and since the word, there, is not acceptable (even in an English translation), this sentence is different.
That is why I believe it must be idiomatic: because the y must be in the sentence, but it cannot be spoken (or translated).
Duolingo doesn't give the luxury of the full context. "Y" replaces the destination in the context of this sentence. Aller requires the use of "y" here:
I quote Sitesurf:
Word for word translations do not always work. That is the case here where "he goes" can work perfectly whereas in French "il va" does not work, because verb "aller" needs a destination. So, "he goes" = "il y va".
The phrase lacks context. Maybe if it's commonly used on its own in French it has become idiomatic? I don't know. But it was easier in my head to think of it this way - Aller requiring a the use of the mandatory pronoun in this context.
Sorry for being OOT, but would you mind to tell me how to type in order to quote someone's comment?
Unfortunately, another example of features not working on Android. (? ) That looks like a link, but does nothing for me. What platform are you using to get these features and find help about how to use this app? :-( I would love access to some information, instead of just flying blind and getting bits of clues from the comments. These comments are great for explaining the language. But unfortunately, links don't work, and I can't even highlight and copy text to paste in my browser address bar. So I can't get to any background info without writing on paper and typing and hoping there isn't a typo. There has got to be a better way. :-(
Thanks. Good to know. Not really feasible for the times that I am able to practice. Nor do I want to sit in front of a computer after doing that all day at work. But good to know that is a possibility if I am desperate. Maybe they will continue to add features to the mobile apps. (Having to reply to my comment, because there is not an option to reply to yours, Sitesurf.)
Aller does need y in this sentence, I agree.
The word there is not accepted, that is why I thought the sentence was idiomatic.
For now, I will just remember that Duo wants it translated this particular way. :-)
To include there/y in English would cause an English speaker to say ..where? ....because there refers to a specific place.
To leave out y/there in French would cause a French speaker to say .....where?....because y refers to a non-specific place. If it isn't non-specific it must be specific.
Having now gone on a bit further and with a better understanding, I feel compelled to return to this question to say that whilst "y" is mandatory here, it is optional in English .
can i safely think of this sentence as "he packs up and he goes?" Could charger be comfortably used to describe filling up one's backpack? or just one's truck or something?
Being non violent I never thought of a gun but my first thought was that he is charging-loading his phone and then goes. Then only I thought of a truck. Could charger mean to charge a device?
That's how I chose to think of it, then I put "He packs up and goes" in the answer space and got it wrong. The translation of terms doesn't seem fluid here at all.
I thought maybe he bought a truck and put it on his credit card. "He charges and he goes there" was accepted. Can "charger" mean paying with a credit card in french?
No, "charger" does not mean that. You can "charger" your phone or your truck but the verb is not used for financial matters.
But "les charges" can be "expenses, costs, (social) charges..."
I translated this : "He is loading and going there" Duo marked me wrong in this, but I still say it's right in English. This is correct: "He is loading and is going there", and the only difference is that I omitted the second "is", which is perfectly acceptable in English.
After some discussion with my French husband (I'm English) who was as confused by this sentence as me, we concluded that it was a bit of a joke - trying to turn the American phrase 'He loads and he goes' i.e he eats and then leaves into French. But it doesn't come across in French, so is a bit pointless.
Your husband may have told you that, as "to load" in English, the French "charger" can be interpreted in various ways; you can "charge" your phone, your car, your truck, etc. In the absence of a clear context (which will always be the case with Duolingo's short sentences), the basic understanding has to be along these lines.
There are currently over 2,300 possible translations in the system, so "he loads and he goes" might be as acceptable as many others.
Could someone address why "goes away" isn't acceptable. I thought il y va would be he goes away. No?
To go away would strictly speaking be s'en aller
He goes away = Il s'en va
He goes = Il y va
I can't answer your question from an experts point of view but from a learner further along the tree, my take on it is that you can convey the meaning to go away in casual dialogue, but the inference is really going to somewhere. As cillieburger says s'en aller more implies going away - in fact it means leave or go from here. The natural sentiment could then be to go away.
Thank you for that. So you can say to someone trying to hit on you "vas-t-en"? Go Away!
Va-t-en !, without the s, because it is the impératif. The tu form of er-verbs in the impératif loses the s. (This does not apply to other verbs in ir or re.) Although irregular, aller does end in er.
The s returns when va is followed by y: Vas-y ! (To use another er-verb, the s also returns with en: Parles-en ! (Talk about it!), otherwise it is without the s: Parle !)
Huh. I said "It charges and it goes" and was marked wrong. I guess I will report it!
in English we can say "He goes" without adding any further information. In French, grammatically, you must add more info. In other words, "Aller" never stands alone. So, we need the little preposition y to make it right in French.
What exactly does it mean? I said: It charges and it's working., is that really wrong?
What is wrong with my answer "He is charging, and then he goes." ? I deal with a ton of rechargeable tools and equipment, and we use that very phrase.
I wrote "He loads and he is going there" but was marked as an incorrect answer... the automated response was missing the helping verb "is" and indicated the response as "He loads and he going there". geez
"He is charging and he going there" is accepted answer but "... and he IS going there" is rejected. Seems wrong to me.
not necessarily a person, it can be for example, a toy: "it loads and goes there" ??
As you know, the verb "aller" can be used with various meanings, including "comment vas-tu ?" (how are you doing?) or "je vais manger des fraises" (I am going to eat strawberries). In such cases, there is no movement implied.
When the meaning is that of "to go from or to a place", "aller" needs an indication of the departure or arrival/destination point, even a hint of it
"Y" means "there" in "il y va", and it is required to mean "he goes there/to someplace".
When "he goes/is going (away)" means "he leaves/is leaving", you have to use "il s'en va", with the pronoun "en" meaning "de + ici" = from here" or another verb "partir": "il part".