"Hisdogenjoysit."

Translation:Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.

3 years ago

42 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/DSDragon
DSDragonPlus
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All of a sudden, Duo has come up with a new verb and I'm expected to know it's not acceptable to use the verb I know which means exactly the same thing? What's wrong with the "is maith le" construction here"

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
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I'm expected to know it's not acceptable to use the verb I know which means exactly the same thing?

It might mean the same thing to you in English but in Irish it doesn't.
Is maith liom é = I like it. But this construction is not used for "I enjoy".
Instead the verb taitníonn or the noun taitneamh needs to be used.

  • Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.
  • Baineann a mhadra taitneamh as.
2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Conchubhar1987

Just to add to that, you could also change 'taitneamh' to 'sult', if you like. :)

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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The is maith le construction should be acceptable if it was constructed correctly.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/17000days

So is "Is maith lena mhadra" correct?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
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Is maith lena mhadra is incomplete. It needs to be Is maith lena mhadra é.
This means 'His dog likes it', it doesn't mean 'His dog enjoys it'. See my comment below for how to say 'enjoy' in Irish.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
scilling
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Yes, that should be acceptable.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/17000days

Thank you! It wasn't accepted, but now I know to report it.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lg72xx
lg72xx
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isn't this the "to shine" verb from several lessons back?

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

Taitníonn sé on it's own means "he shines". But taitníonn sé le X means "X enjoys it".

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lg72xx
lg72xx
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So, "taitníonn sé liom" : "He shines with me" ? [which is what Duolingo gave as the translation, back in that lesson on "to shine"...although to a native American English speaker that makes no sense, as one generally shines at something, (at math, at football, whatever), not with a person ] . Or should it instead be translated as "I enjoy him" / "I enjoy it" ? (which makes a lot more sense!)

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

So, "taitníonn sé liom" : "He shines with me" ? [which is what Duolingo gave as the translation, back in that lesson on "to shine"...

Are you sure? The preferred Duolingo translation for Taitníonn sé is given as "It shines", but the preferred translation for Taitníonn sé liom is "I enjoy it".

Remember that can mean "it" as well as "he". "He shines with me" is a literal translation, but it's not what the phrase actually means.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

If you see it again, click on the Discussion link, and see what it shows there as the preferred translation. For better or worse, when Duolingo has been configured to accept multiple translations, it will show the closest match to your entry for it's "correct answer", and while "he shines with me" is a "correct" literal translation, it's nearly as bad as tá sé fear from a practical translation point of view.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/lg72xx
lg72xx
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yep, i'm sure...at least in one lesson: I just got it again yesterday when I was re-doing that segment of the first verb lesson. I don't know if it accepts either version --- I responded with the "literal" translation before I saw your comment, and it marked it correct and showed that as its own answer as well. If I encounter it again, I'll try the other version, and/or try a Problem Report if it doesn't accept that.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Nina462140
Nina462140
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Is there a way to discern when lena mean "with her" and when it means "with his"?

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/gennzag
gennzag
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The object in possession should provide the clue: whether it is lenited or not. So, when the object is spelled beginning with a consonant:

"a madra" (no change) - her dog

"a mhadra" (lenition) - his dog

And when the object is spelled beginning with a vowel:

"a húll" (lenition) - her apple

"a úll" (no change) - his apple

Notice that if lenition occurs for words beginning in consonants, lenition will not occur for words beginning in vowels. So, replace "a" with "lena" in the above examples, that should help. The possessive "a" only indicates possession, not specifically whose.

3 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/katmaloo
katmaloo
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I'm unclear about using a versus Lena. You said that a is nonspecific, but Lena also seems nonspecific since both terms are clarified through lenition? Can you explain this further? Thanks!

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

a madra (no change) - her dog
a mhadra (lenition) - his dog

lena madra (no change) - with her dog
lena mhadra (lenition) - with his dog

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
becky3086
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Thank you. I only got this right because it had "sé"which was the only "he" I could see. I had no idea it had anything to do with "lena" though that was the basis of my confusion because I thought "lena" had something to do with "hers" or "her". Something is totally missing in these lessons for me. Lenition is just a horror for me though I did stop and study it... so I could get better.....hasn't helped much :(

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

I've suggested to other people that "studying lenition" may be the wrong approach - you may be better off learning to recognize situations that cause mutations (lenition or eclipsis) (possessive pronouns, prepositions, feminine nouns, etc) and then work on remembering the rules that apply to specific situations. This approach is particular helpful in situations that involve the possessive pronoun, as you can have lenition, eclipsis or no change after a possessive pronoun, and if you've only studied lenition, but haven't worked on eclipsis yet, you'll be stuck.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/sibreanna

When it says "se" it's his. When it says "si" its hers.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/ConODonovan

Taithnionn se translates as, it is enjoyable to; The gender of the dogs owner dictates wether it is a madra or a mhadra. So it translates as "It is enjoyable to his/her dog" In this case his," a mhadra."

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
becky3086
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The worst part about the comments is that you can read through them and realize that it has been months and you still can't write or translate this sentence. Still can't remember whether "his" or "hers" gets the extra "h" and still have no idea why this sentence has "lena" in it and where the "it" is?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
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Still can't remember whether "his" or "hers" gets the extra "h"

Here's a table with examples of using the possessive adjectives with various nouns.

still have no idea why this sentence has "lena" in it and where the "it" is

Taitin on its own means 'to shine' but taitin with le means 'to be pleased with' or 'to enjoy'.
The format is: Taitníonn (something) le (somebody).
This translates to English as (somebody) enjoys (something).

Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.
Here (something) is (= it) and (somebody) is a mhadra (= his dog).

So you would expect the sentence to be: Taitníonn sé le a mhadra.
But it is difficult to say le + a smoothly. To make it easier an auxiliary letter 'n' is inserted between them so le + a becomes le + n + a = lena and the sentence becomes: Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
becky3086
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You know, all this time and it has never been explained so easily for me. I had no idea that "taitin" and "le" used together meant "to enjoy something" I always thought that "taitin" meant "to shine" but could also mean "enjoy" and I never understood why. I had all sorts of people try to explain it but they all used examples that I couldn't understand. I do very much appreciate such an understandable, thorough answer.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/OliverCasserley

Thanks for asking the question becky3086 and thanks to moloughl for a comprehensive reply that will benefit many of us. Athbhliain shláintiúl daoibh.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mikeinkerry

I very helpful addition, thank you. My query is about "taitníonn .. le" not being about "like," but rather being about "enjoy." Hmm... http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/taitin gives this example: "Taitníonn sé leis na daoine, the people are fond of him." IMHO "fond" is closer to "like" than "enjoy," but maybe we're splitting hairs.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Lancet
Lancet
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On the his/her thing:

  • Mo mhadra = my dog
  • Do mhadra = your dog
  • A mhadra = his dog
  • A madra = her dog

The "h" is the default option. When Irish grammar was being invented, women were evidently an afterthought ... Does that help?

The sentence has "lena" in it purely because it's not allowed to write "le a" in Irish - you must write lena instead. It's just one of those things you have to learn. Similarly, you can't write "le ár" - it's lenár.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
becky3086
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This is true. I know I need to work on eclipsis as well but I really haven't got lenition good yet. One thing at a time works good for me....and that is what I mean by studying lenition--studying the instances where lenition occurs...cause there is no other way to study it. I hope to eventually go on to eclipsis but hope to fine a program that breaks both of them down more. I just can't take in all the different rules at once like this. No practice for all the different instances of change.....it just doesn't come to me that easily....I need practice and haven't found a book or online program that will give me that....yet.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

I'm suggesting trying to study lenition as a single "subject" isn't a productive approach for you, and that you should study where change occurs instead. Pick possession, and work on learning all the rules for the possessive pronouns (some of them cause lenition, some cause eclipsis, some don't cause any change). Get the basics of that situation right, then expand it a bit by looking at how the rules change when you throw words starting with vowels into the mix.

Study nouns, and learn what rules apply to feminine nouns after an, what rules apply to nouns that start with vowels or the letter S, and how Capital Letters interact with lenition/eclipsis.

Study prepositions and learn the changes that they cause - maybe split them into groups, one group that cause eclipsis after an and another than doesn't. Then study the numbers, and familiarize yourself with which ones cause eclipsis and which ones cause lenition.

Studying lenition first, and leaving eclipsis until later may be making it harder for you to keep track of things, because there are so many situations where lenition or eclipsis can occur.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
becky3086
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Yeah, I understand what you are saying but I haven't found a way to study it like that yet. Irish Language books aren't the greatest. They tend to have a lot of explanation but not a lot of exercises and I really think that a good language course must have both. I know I learned French a lot easier in school because the books had a lot of exercises where you can practice. Haven't found that in Irish language books....yet. Really though, I just haven't made a lot of time for Irish lately (it got a bit depressing because I felt like there was just too much at once) so if I come here and still learn something, I am doing good.

2 years ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MatConn
MatConn
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It seems to me this answer translates to:" he enjoys his dog". I thought the correct translation should be: "Taitníonn a mhadra leis"

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

taitníonn X le Y - "Y enjoys X" - note that the order of X and Y changes. (This change in order is the same as in Tá X ag Y - "Y has X").

In this case X is - "it", and Y is a mhadra - "his dog", so "Y enjoys it" becomes "his dog enjoys it".

For those who prefer so called literal translations, taitníonn sé lena mhadra can be "it shines with his dog", which you can teach yourself to convolute into "it pleases his dog", or "his dog enjoys it". The problem with this "literal" approach comes when you translate taitníonn sé lena mhadra as "he shines with his dog", which naturally leads people to jump to the seemingly "sensible" statement "he enjoys his dog"

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MatConn
MatConn
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thanks

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/moloughl
moloughl
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taitníonn sé lena mhadra can be "it shines with his dog", which you can teach yourself to convolute into "it pleases his dog", or "his dog enjoys it".

When taitin occurs with le it is not translated as 'to shine with'. Instead it means 'to please', 'to give satisfaction to', 'to give enjoyment to' so there is no need for us to convolute it into this meaning. Both Ó Dónaill and Dineen give this separate meaning for taitin le.

Other words for 'to shine' are lonraigh and dealraigh
Lonraíonn an ghrian = the sun shines.
Dealraíonn an ghrian = the sun shines.

Dealraigh too has a separate meaning when used with le.
Dealraigh le means 'to liken to'.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

Obviously - but some people still insist on relying on "literal" translations in this type of situation, even though it's unreliable and misleading.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/TreasaWilson

I haven't come across lena before. Why isn't 'his dog' translated as a mhadra?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

"his dog" is a mhadra.

But to say "Y enjoys X", you use the structure "taitníonn X le Y", and you can't say le a mhadra, you have to change it to lena mhadra.

This happens simply because it's easier to say lena mhadra than le a mhadra, where you have to stop between le and a.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/MatConn
MatConn
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It seems Taitníonn requires a with e.g. "ls".. In this case "lena" means with his so "lena mhadra"

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/mikeinkerry

The only way I can make sense of this word order is as follows:

IRISH - VSO
Taitníonn sé lena mhadra Verb Subj Object Sees-enjoyment he in-his dog

ENGLISH - SVO He sees-enjoyment in-his dog Sub Verb Object

I hope this makes sense.

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/BAtonal5
BAtonal5
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which are the other pronouns to talk about my, your, our and so on in those cases?

1 year ago

https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL

Lancet gave the translations for my, your, his and hers above.

Mo mhadra = my dog - Taitníonn sé le mo mhadra.
Do mhadra = your dog - Taitníonn sé le do mhadra.
A mhadra = his dog - Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.
A madra = her dog - Taitníonn sé lena madra.
ár madra = our dog - Taitníonn sé lenár madra.
bhur madra = your dog - Taitníonn sé le bhur madra.
a madra = their dog - Taitníonn sé lena madra.

The plural forms normally take eclipsis rather than lenition, but you can't eclipse "m". If it was cat instead of madra, you'd have ár gcat, bhur gcat and a gcat.

1 year ago
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