"His dog enjoys it."

Translation:Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.

3 years ago

43 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/DSDragon
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All of a sudden, Duo has come up with a new verb and I'm expected to know it's not acceptable to use the verb I know which means exactly the same thing? What's wrong with the "is maith le" construction here"

3 years ago

[deactivated user]

    I'm expected to know it's not acceptable to use the verb I know which means exactly the same thing?

    It might mean the same thing to you in English but in Irish it doesn't.
    Is maith liom é = I like it. But this construction is not used for "I enjoy".
    Instead the verb taitníonn or the noun taitneamh needs to be used.

    • Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.
    • Baineann a mhadra taitneamh as.
    2 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/Conchubhar1987

    Just to add to that, you could also change 'taitneamh' to 'sult', if you like. :)

    2 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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    The is maith le construction should be acceptable if it was constructed correctly.

    3 years ago

    https://www.duolingo.com/17000days

    So is "Is maith lena mhadra" correct?

    3 years ago

    [deactivated user]

      Is maith lena mhadra is incomplete. It needs to be Is maith lena mhadra é.
      This means 'His dog likes it', it doesn't mean 'His dog enjoys it'. See my comment below for how to say 'enjoy' in Irish.

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/scilling
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      Yes, that should be acceptable.

      3 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/17000days

      Thank you! It wasn't accepted, but now I know to report it.

      3 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/lg72xx
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      isn't this the "to shine" verb from several lessons back?

      3 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

      Taitníonn sé on it's own means "he shines". But taitníonn sé le X means "X enjoys it".

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/lg72xx
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      So, "taitníonn sé liom" : "He shines with me" ? [which is what Duolingo gave as the translation, back in that lesson on "to shine"...although to a native American English speaker that makes no sense, as one generally shines at something, (at math, at football, whatever), not with a person ] . Or should it instead be translated as "I enjoy him" / "I enjoy it" ? (which makes a lot more sense!)

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

      So, "taitníonn sé liom" : "He shines with me" ? [which is what Duolingo gave as the translation, back in that lesson on "to shine"...

      Are you sure? The preferred Duolingo translation for Taitníonn sé is given as "It shines", but the preferred translation for Taitníonn sé liom is "I enjoy it".

      Remember that can mean "it" as well as "he". "He shines with me" is a literal translation, but it's not what the phrase actually means.

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

      If you see it again, click on the Discussion link, and see what it shows there as the preferred translation. For better or worse, when Duolingo has been configured to accept multiple translations, it will show the closest match to your entry for it's "correct answer", and while "he shines with me" is a "correct" literal translation, it's nearly as bad as tá sé fear from a practical translation point of view.

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/lg72xx
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      yep, i'm sure...at least in one lesson: I just got it again yesterday when I was re-doing that segment of the first verb lesson. I don't know if it accepts either version --- I responded with the "literal" translation before I saw your comment, and it marked it correct and showed that as its own answer as well. If I encounter it again, I'll try the other version, and/or try a Problem Report if it doesn't accept that.

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/RozieToez
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      Is there a way to discern when lena mean "with her" and when it means "with his"?

      3 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/gennzag
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      The object in possession should provide the clue: whether it is lenited or not. So, when the object is spelled beginning with a consonant:

      "a madra" (no change) - her dog

      "a mhadra" (lenition) - his dog

      And when the object is spelled beginning with a vowel:

      "a húll" (lenition) - her apple

      "a úll" (no change) - his apple

      Notice that if lenition occurs for words beginning in consonants, lenition will not occur for words beginning in vowels. So, replace "a" with "lena" in the above examples, that should help. The possessive "a" only indicates possession, not specifically whose.

      3 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/katmaloo
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      I'm unclear about using a versus Lena. You said that a is nonspecific, but Lena also seems nonspecific since both terms are clarified through lenition? Can you explain this further? Thanks!

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

      a madra (no change) - her dog
      a mhadra (lenition) - his dog

      lena madra (no change) - with her dog
      lena mhadra (lenition) - with his dog

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
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      Thank you. I only got this right because it had "sé"which was the only "he" I could see. I had no idea it had anything to do with "lena" though that was the basis of my confusion because I thought "lena" had something to do with "hers" or "her". Something is totally missing in these lessons for me. Lenition is just a horror for me though I did stop and study it... so I could get better.....hasn't helped much :(

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

      I've suggested to other people that "studying lenition" may be the wrong approach - you may be better off learning to recognize situations that cause mutations (lenition or eclipsis) (possessive pronouns, prepositions, feminine nouns, etc) and then work on remembering the rules that apply to specific situations. This approach is particular helpful in situations that involve the possessive pronoun, as you can have lenition, eclipsis or no change after a possessive pronoun, and if you've only studied lenition, but haven't worked on eclipsis yet, you'll be stuck.

      2 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/sibreanna

      When it says "se" it's his. When it says "si" its hers.

      3 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/ConODonovan
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      Taithnionn se translates as, it is enjoyable to; The gender of the dogs owner dictates wether it is a madra or a mhadra. So it translates as "It is enjoyable to his/her dog" In this case his," a mhadra."

      3 years ago

      https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
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      The worst part about the comments is that you can read through them and realize that it has been months and you still can't write or translate this sentence. Still can't remember whether "his" or "hers" gets the extra "h" and still have no idea why this sentence has "lena" in it and where the "it" is?

      2 years ago

      [deactivated user]

        Still can't remember whether "his" or "hers" gets the extra "h"

        Here's a table with examples of using the possessive adjectives with various nouns.

        still have no idea why this sentence has "lena" in it and where the "it" is

        Taitin on its own means 'to shine' but taitin with le means 'to be pleased with' or 'to enjoy'.
        The format is: Taitníonn (something) le (somebody).
        This translates to English as (somebody) enjoys (something).

        Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.
        Here (something) is (= it) and (somebody) is a mhadra (= his dog).

        So you would expect the sentence to be: Taitníonn sé le a mhadra.
        But it is difficult to say le + a smoothly. To make it easier an auxiliary letter 'n' is inserted between them so le + a becomes le + n + a = lena and the sentence becomes: Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
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        You know, all this time and it has never been explained so easily for me. I had no idea that "taitin" and "le" used together meant "to enjoy something" I always thought that "taitin" meant "to shine" but could also mean "enjoy" and I never understood why. I had all sorts of people try to explain it but they all used examples that I couldn't understand. I do very much appreciate such an understandable, thorough answer.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/OliverCasserley

        Thanks for asking the question becky3086 and thanks to moloughl for a comprehensive reply that will benefit many of us. Athbhliain shláintiúl daoibh.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/mikeinkerry

        I very helpful addition, thank you. My query is about "taitníonn .. le" not being about "like," but rather being about "enjoy." Hmm... http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/taitin gives this example: "Taitníonn sé leis na daoine, the people are fond of him." IMHO "fond" is closer to "like" than "enjoy," but maybe we're splitting hairs.

        1 year ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Lancet
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        On the his/her thing:

        • Mo mhadra = my dog
        • Do mhadra = your dog
        • A mhadra = his dog
        • A madra = her dog

        The "h" is the default option. When Irish grammar was being invented, women were evidently an afterthought ... Does that help?

        The sentence has "lena" in it purely because it's not allowed to write "le a" in Irish - you must write lena instead. It's just one of those things you have to learn. Similarly, you can't write "le ár" - it's lenár.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
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        This is true. I know I need to work on eclipsis as well but I really haven't got lenition good yet. One thing at a time works good for me....and that is what I mean by studying lenition--studying the instances where lenition occurs...cause there is no other way to study it. I hope to eventually go on to eclipsis but hope to fine a program that breaks both of them down more. I just can't take in all the different rules at once like this. No practice for all the different instances of change.....it just doesn't come to me that easily....I need practice and haven't found a book or online program that will give me that....yet.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

        I'm suggesting trying to study lenition as a single "subject" isn't a productive approach for you, and that you should study where change occurs instead. Pick possession, and work on learning all the rules for the possessive pronouns (some of them cause lenition, some cause eclipsis, some don't cause any change). Get the basics of that situation right, then expand it a bit by looking at how the rules change when you throw words starting with vowels into the mix.

        Study nouns, and learn what rules apply to feminine nouns after an, what rules apply to nouns that start with vowels or the letter S, and how Capital Letters interact with lenition/eclipsis.

        Study prepositions and learn the changes that they cause - maybe split them into groups, one group that cause eclipsis after an and another than doesn't. Then study the numbers, and familiarize yourself with which ones cause eclipsis and which ones cause lenition.

        Studying lenition first, and leaving eclipsis until later may be making it harder for you to keep track of things, because there are so many situations where lenition or eclipsis can occur.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/becky3086
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        Yeah, I understand what you are saying but I haven't found a way to study it like that yet. Irish Language books aren't the greatest. They tend to have a lot of explanation but not a lot of exercises and I really think that a good language course must have both. I know I learned French a lot easier in school because the books had a lot of exercises where you can practice. Haven't found that in Irish language books....yet. Really though, I just haven't made a lot of time for Irish lately (it got a bit depressing because I felt like there was just too much at once) so if I come here and still learn something, I am doing good.

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/MatConn
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        It seems to me this answer translates to:" he enjoys his dog". I thought the correct translation should be: "Taitníonn a mhadra leis"

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

        taitníonn X le Y - "Y enjoys X" - note that the order of X and Y changes. (This change in order is the same as in Tá X ag Y - "Y has X").

        In this case X is - "it", and Y is a mhadra - "his dog", so "Y enjoys it" becomes "his dog enjoys it".

        For those who prefer so called literal translations, taitníonn sé lena mhadra can be "it shines with his dog", which you can teach yourself to convolute into "it pleases his dog", or "his dog enjoys it". The problem with this "literal" approach comes when you translate taitníonn sé lena mhadra as "he shines with his dog", which naturally leads people to jump to the seemingly "sensible" statement "he enjoys his dog"

        2 years ago

        https://www.duolingo.com/MatConn
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        thanks

        2 years ago

        [deactivated user]

          taitníonn sé lena mhadra can be "it shines with his dog", which you can teach yourself to convolute into "it pleases his dog", or "his dog enjoys it".

          When taitin occurs with le it is not translated as 'to shine with'. Instead it means 'to please', 'to give satisfaction to', 'to give enjoyment to' so there is no need for us to convolute it into this meaning. Both Ó Dónaill and Dineen give this separate meaning for taitin le.

          Other words for 'to shine' are lonraigh and dealraigh
          Lonraíonn an ghrian = the sun shines.
          Dealraíonn an ghrian = the sun shines.

          Dealraigh too has a separate meaning when used with le.
          Dealraigh le means 'to liken to'.

          2 years ago

          https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

          Obviously - but some people still insist on relying on "literal" translations in this type of situation, even though it's unreliable and misleading.

          2 years ago

          https://www.duolingo.com/TreasaWilson
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          I haven't come across lena before. Why isn't 'his dog' translated as a mhadra?

          2 years ago

          https://www.duolingo.com/Knocksedan

          "his dog" is a mhadra.

          But to say "Y enjoys X", you use the structure "taitníonn X le Y", and you can't say le a mhadra, you have to change it to lena mhadra.

          This happens simply because it's easier to say lena mhadra than le a mhadra, where you have to stop between le and a.

          2 years ago

          https://www.duolingo.com/MatConn
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          It seems Taitníonn requires a with e.g. "ls".. In this case "lena" means with his so "lena mhadra"

          2 years ago

          https://www.duolingo.com/mikeinkerry

          The only way I can make sense of this word order is as follows:

          IRISH - VSO
          Taitníonn sé lena mhadra Verb Subj Object Sees-enjoyment he in-his dog

          ENGLISH - SVO He sees-enjoyment in-his dog Sub Verb Object

          I hope this makes sense.

          1 year ago

          https://www.duolingo.com/BAtonal5
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          which are the other pronouns to talk about my, your, our and so on in those cases?

          1 year ago

          https://www.duolingo.com/SatharnPHL
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          Lancet gave the translations for my, your, his and hers above.

          Mo mhadra = my dog - Taitníonn sé le mo mhadra.
          Do mhadra = your dog - Taitníonn sé le do mhadra.
          A mhadra = his dog - Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.
          A madra = her dog - Taitníonn sé lena madra.
          ár madra = our dog - Taitníonn sé lenár madra.
          bhur madra = your dog - Taitníonn sé le bhur madra.
          a madra = their dog - Taitníonn sé lena madra.

          The plural forms normally take eclipsis rather than lenition, but you can't eclipse "m". If it was cat instead of madra, you'd have ár gcat, bhur gcat and a gcat.

          1 year ago

          https://www.duolingo.com/Chalazon

          It all seems so arbitrary....

          1 week ago
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