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  5. "His dog enjoys it."

"His dog enjoys it."

Translation:Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.

May 13, 2015

64 Comments


https://www.duolingo.com/profile/DSDragon

All of a sudden, Duo has come up with a new verb and I'm expected to know it's not acceptable to use the verb I know which means exactly the same thing? What's wrong with the "is maith le" construction here"


[deactivated user]

    I'm expected to know it's not acceptable to use the verb I know which means exactly the same thing?

    It might mean the same thing to you in English but in Irish it doesn't.
    Is maith liom é = I like it. But this construction is not used for "I enjoy".
    Instead the verb taitníonn or the noun taitneamh needs to be used.

    • Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.
    • Baineann a mhadra taitneamh as.

    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Conchubhar1987

    Just to add to that, you could also change 'taitneamh' to 'sult', if you like. :)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lg72xx
    • 1924

    isn't this the "to shine" verb from several lessons back?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    Taitníonn sé on it's own means "he shines". But taitníonn sé le X means "X enjoys it".


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lg72xx
    • 1924

    So, "taitníonn sé liom" : "He shines with me" ? [which is what Duolingo gave as the translation, back in that lesson on "to shine"...although to a native American English speaker that makes no sense, as one generally shines at something, (at math, at football, whatever), not with a person ] . Or should it instead be translated as "I enjoy him" / "I enjoy it" ? (which makes a lot more sense!)


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    So, "taitníonn sé liom" : "He shines with me" ? [which is what Duolingo gave as the translation, back in that lesson on "to shine"...

    Are you sure? The preferred Duolingo translation for Taitníonn sé is given as "It shines", but the preferred translation for Taitníonn sé liom is "I enjoy it".

    Remember that can mean "it" as well as "he". "He shines with me" is a literal translation, but it's not what the phrase actually means.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    If you see it again, click on the Discussion link, and see what it shows there as the preferred translation. For better or worse, when Duolingo has been configured to accept multiple translations, it will show the closest match to your entry for it's "correct answer", and while "he shines with me" is a "correct" literal translation, it's nearly as bad as tá sé fear from a practical translation point of view.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/lg72xx
    • 1924

    yep, i'm sure...at least in one lesson: I just got it again yesterday when I was re-doing that segment of the first verb lesson. I don't know if it accepts either version --- I responded with the "literal" translation before I saw your comment, and it marked it correct and showed that as its own answer as well. If I encounter it again, I'll try the other version, and/or try a Problem Report if it doesn't accept that.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/KSBMcCann

    For Taitníonn sé liom, how do you tell the difference between "I enjoy it" and "I enjoy him"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/scilling

    The is maith le construction should be acceptable if it was constructed correctly.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/RozieToez

    Is there a way to discern when lena mean "with her" and when it means "with his"?


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/gennzag

    The object in possession should provide the clue: whether it is lenited or not. So, when the object is spelled beginning with a consonant:

    "a madra" (no change) - her dog

    "a mhadra" (lenition) - his dog

    And when the object is spelled beginning with a vowel:

    "a húll" (lenition) - her apple

    "a úll" (no change) - his apple

    Notice that if lenition occurs for words beginning in consonants, lenition will not occur for words beginning in vowels. So, replace "a" with "lena" in the above examples, that should help. The possessive "a" only indicates possession, not specifically whose.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/katmaloo

    I'm unclear about using a versus Lena. You said that a is nonspecific, but Lena also seems nonspecific since both terms are clarified through lenition? Can you explain this further? Thanks!


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    a madra (no change) - her dog
    a mhadra (lenition) - his dog

    lena madra (no change) - with her dog
    lena mhadra (lenition) - with his dog


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/becky3086

    Thank you. I only got this right because it had "sé"which was the only "he" I could see. I had no idea it had anything to do with "lena" though that was the basis of my confusion because I thought "lena" had something to do with "hers" or "her". Something is totally missing in these lessons for me. Lenition is just a horror for me though I did stop and study it... so I could get better.....hasn't helped much :(


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    I've suggested to other people that "studying lenition" may be the wrong approach - you may be better off learning to recognize situations that cause mutations (lenition or eclipsis) (possessive pronouns, prepositions, feminine nouns, etc) and then work on remembering the rules that apply to specific situations. This approach is particular helpful in situations that involve the possessive pronoun, as you can have lenition, eclipsis or no change after a possessive pronoun, and if you've only studied lenition, but haven't worked on eclipsis yet, you'll be stuck.


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnneNoone1

    Becky3086 i feel as you do. Im new to irish grammer. Its hard


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatConn

    It seems to me this answer translates to:" he enjoys his dog". I thought the correct translation should be: "Taitníonn a mhadra leis"


    https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

    taitníonn X le Y - "Y enjoys X" - note that the order of X and Y changes. (This change in order is the same as in Tá X ag Y - "Y has X").

    In this case X is - "it", and Y is a mhadra - "his dog", so "Y enjoys it" becomes "his dog enjoys it".

    For those who prefer so called literal translations, taitníonn sé lena mhadra can be "it shines with his dog", which you can teach yourself to convolute into "it pleases his dog", or "his dog enjoys it". The problem with this "literal" approach comes when you translate taitníonn sé lena mhadra as "he shines with his dog", which naturally leads people to jump to the seemingly "sensible" statement "he enjoys his dog"


    [deactivated user]

      taitníonn sé lena mhadra can be "it shines with his dog", which you can teach yourself to convolute into "it pleases his dog", or "his dog enjoys it".

      When taitin occurs with le it is not translated as 'to shine with'. Instead it means 'to please', 'to give satisfaction to', 'to give enjoyment to' so there is no need for us to convolute it into this meaning. Both Ó Dónaill and Dineen give this separate meaning for taitin le.

      Other words for 'to shine' are lonraigh and dealraigh
      Lonraíonn an ghrian = the sun shines.
      Dealraíonn an ghrian = the sun shines.

      Dealraigh too has a separate meaning when used with le.
      Dealraigh le means 'to liken to'.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

      Obviously - but some people still insist on relying on "literal" translations in this type of situation, even though it's unreliable and misleading.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/arklab

      Just wanted to say this is why I'm loving learning Irish. The idea that something is shining when it's being enjoyed by someone is such a beautiful way of thinking about it.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      Irish speakers really don't think about it that way - they just happen to use that verb in two different contexts. English speakers don't think of food when someone says that they are "fed up", you don't look for a key when someone talks about a "lock of hair".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CheeseGirl5

      why does duolingo want me to say "taitníonn sé lena mhadra" but when the same sentence comes up with a cat i must say "is maith lena chat é"? the opposite form is not accepted on either one and it's very frustrating, I believe they should both have been accepted


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      Are you referring to the exercise "His cat likes milk", and it's pair Is maith lena chat bainne?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/becky3086

      This is true. I know I need to work on eclipsis as well but I really haven't got lenition good yet. One thing at a time works good for me....and that is what I mean by studying lenition--studying the instances where lenition occurs...cause there is no other way to study it. I hope to eventually go on to eclipsis but hope to fine a program that breaks both of them down more. I just can't take in all the different rules at once like this. No practice for all the different instances of change.....it just doesn't come to me that easily....I need practice and haven't found a book or online program that will give me that....yet.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

      I'm suggesting trying to study lenition as a single "subject" isn't a productive approach for you, and that you should study where change occurs instead. Pick possession, and work on learning all the rules for the possessive pronouns (some of them cause lenition, some cause eclipsis, some don't cause any change). Get the basics of that situation right, then expand it a bit by looking at how the rules change when you throw words starting with vowels into the mix.

      Study nouns, and learn what rules apply to feminine nouns after an, what rules apply to nouns that start with vowels or the letter S, and how Capital Letters interact with lenition/eclipsis.

      Study prepositions and learn the changes that they cause - maybe split them into groups, one group that cause eclipsis after an and another than doesn't. Then study the numbers, and familiarize yourself with which ones cause eclipsis and which ones cause lenition.

      Studying lenition first, and leaving eclipsis until later may be making it harder for you to keep track of things, because there are so many situations where lenition or eclipsis can occur.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/becky3086

      Yeah, I understand what you are saying but I haven't found a way to study it like that yet. Irish Language books aren't the greatest. They tend to have a lot of explanation but not a lot of exercises and I really think that a good language course must have both. I know I learned French a lot easier in school because the books had a lot of exercises where you can practice. Haven't found that in Irish language books....yet. Really though, I just haven't made a lot of time for Irish lately (it got a bit depressing because I felt like there was just too much at once) so if I come here and still learn something, I am doing good.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/TreasaWilson

      I haven't come across lena before. Why isn't 'his dog' translated as a mhadra?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

      "his dog" is a mhadra.

      But to say "Y enjoys X", you use the structure "taitníonn X le Y", and you can't say le a mhadra, you have to change it to lena mhadra.

      This happens simply because it's easier to say lena mhadra than le a mhadra, where you have to stop between le and a.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MatConn

      It seems Taitníonn requires a with e.g. "ls".. In this case "lena" means with his so "lena mhadra"


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BAtonal5

      which are the other pronouns to talk about my, your, our and so on in those cases?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      Lancet gave the translations for my, your, his and hers above.

      Mo mhadra = my dog - Taitníonn sé le mo mhadra.
      Do mhadra = your dog - Taitníonn sé le do mhadra.
      A mhadra = his dog - Taitníonn sé lena mhadra.
      A madra = her dog - Taitníonn sé lena madra.
      ár madra = our dog - Taitníonn sé lenár madra.
      bhur madra = your dog - Taitníonn sé le bhur madra.
      a madra = their dog - Taitníonn sé lena madra.

      The plural forms normally take eclipsis rather than lenition, but you can't eclipse "m". If it was cat instead of madra, you'd have ár gcat, bhur gcat and a gcat.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/CaterinaSa614356

      Why is "Taitnionn a mhadra e'' incorrect?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      The verb taitin doesn't mean "to enjoy". Taitníonn a mhadra means "His dog shines", as in "emits light", so it doesn't take an object.

      The phrasal verb taitin le means "to please", so Taitníonn sé lena mhadra means "it pleases his dog", or "his dog enjoys it".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/MollyCusta

      every now and again I struggle with sé/é - can someone explain in idiot's terms when one or the other is used?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      (and and siad) are only ever used as the subject of an active verb, and immediately after that verb. In all other cases, including the copula, you use é (or í or *iad).


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Aixiae

      Is there any difference from riding this as "He enjoys his dog"?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      Taitníonn a mhadra leis - "He enjoys his dog"
      Taitníonn sé lena mhadra - "His dog enjoys it"


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/skruzic

      What does word "lena" mean? Is it something like "le" + "na" or smth different?

      BTW, i noticed that the word in question seems not to follow the rule "broad with broad, slender with slender" since letter n is surrounded by both e and a. Why is this so?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      lena is le + a (the possessive adjective meaning "his", "her" or "their").

      The n was introduced in normal speech because it is easier to say lena than le a, and leathan le leathan, caol le caol is not voilated because lena is effectively a compound word.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/BrianDuffy3

      This doesn't look right to me.

      "Taitníonn sé lena mhadra" means "He enjoys his dog" So I think the English translation is wrong. "lena" is with his, where as "óna" would from his probably would more accurate.

      Someone already said it but "baineann sé taitneamh as a mhadra" would be what is taught in school, "he gets enjoyment from his dog".

      "Taitníonn a mhadra é" means "His dog enjoys it". Or "Baineann a mhadra taitneamh as é"

      http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/possess.htm


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      Taitníonn sé lena mhadra does not mean "He enjoys his dog". It means "His dog enjoys it".

      Taitníonn a mhadra é doesn't actually mean anything in Irish, as the verb taitin means shine, as in "emit light", and doesn't take an object, unless you use the preposition le with it. .


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Fear_Dofheicthe

      "Taitníonn sé lena mhadra". I read that as, "He likes his dog." How am I not understanding this sentence?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      The phrasal verb taitin le, doesn't mean "to enjoy" or "to like", it actually means "to please", and taitníonn sé le X - "it pleases X" is often reinterpreted as "X enjoys/likes it".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Sissy681549

      Taitníonn sé dom mhadra??? Mo, do, dom, dí or am I wron again!!


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      dom is a prepositional pronoun - a combination of the preposition do and the pronoun .

      mo ("my") is a possessive adjective - do and mo do not combine in writing.

      The possessive adjectives are mo, do, a, a, ár, bhur, a ("my", "your", "his", "her", "our", "your", "their").


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/VincentKel680376

      I don't get it....doesn't Taitnionn se mean: he enjoys. Is the construction in Irish - he enjoys with his dog?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      No, taitníonn sé doesn't means "he enjoys". With le, it is closer in meaning to "it/he pleases", where "it pleases his dog" is equivalent to "his dog enjoys it".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lamhineach

      Could it be : Taitníonn sin ... ?


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/19O492554

      No.

      "His dog enjoys it" - Taitníonn sé lena mhadra
      "His dog enjoys that" - Taitníonn sé sin lena mhadra
      Some people might leave the out in the 2nd example, but the translation is still "that", not "it".


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Lamhineach

      Thanks ! Go raibh maith agat as do fhreagra. I am learning English at the same time, it and that wasn't clear for me, now it is.


      https://www.duolingo.com/profile/AnneDaly9

      Whats wrong with taitnionn a mhadra é


      [deactivated user]

        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/ella994691

        would lena not mean with his dog rather then his dog?


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

        Taitníonn sé liom - "it pleases me"/"I enjoy it"
        Taitníonn sé le Pól - "it pleases Paul"/"Paul enjoys it"
        Taitníonn sé lena mhadra - "it pleases his dog"/"his dog enjoys it"
        Taitníonn a mhadra liom - "his dog pleases me"/"I enjoy his dog"


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/LizKerrey

        Is 'tá a mhadra ag baint taitnimh as' wrong and why? I always seem to put the wrong construction for this, I don't know when to use 'ag baint taitnimh' and when to use 'taitníonn sé'


        https://www.duolingo.com/profile/Knocksedan

        Yes, 'tá a mhadra ag baint taitnimh as' is wrong.

        "His dog is enjoying it" and "His dog enjoys is" are not equivalent statements in English, and tá a mhadra ag baint taitnimh as means "his dog is enjoying it", it doesn't mean "His dog enjoys it".

        It should also be pointed out that, even though Duolingo uses ag baint taitnimh as in its exercises, the correct construction is ag baint taitneamh as.
        https://forum.duolingo.com/comment/8275317?comment_id=39124881

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