"I see both the women."
Translation:Kadınların ikisini de görüyorum.
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Kadın+lar (plural)+ın (genitive) İki (two) + (possessive suffix) + n (buffer cons.) + i (accusative) the de is verrrryyyy mysterious. It tells you that they are separate and it is very common to see the de being used with the concept of both.
I hope that helped! :)
Adding to this^
Kadınların ikisini görüyorum. = I see two of the women (There are more than 2 women, but I only see 2 of them.)
Kadınların ikisini de görüyorum. = I see both of the women. (There is a total of 2 women and I see them both.)
This goes for all the numbers.
Arabaların üçünü görüyorum. = I see three of the cars (there are more than 3.)
Arabaların üçünü de görüyorum. = I see all three cars. (There is a total of 3 cars. And I see them all.)
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On the other hand, there was a phrase "elmaların ikisini yiyorum" (or so; without "da", anyway) to be translated "I am eating both apples" (not: "two of the apples") in this very same lesson.
Why exactly is the buffer consonent for the accusative case an "n" and not a "y"?
After the 3rd-per possessive suffix, the buffer will always be "n" if another case is being added (except for instrumental case.
ikisi = iki + si (possesive suffix). On the other hand, ikisini = iki + si (possesive suffix) + n (buffer letter) + i (accusative). Note that, usually to add the accusative suffix to a word ending in a vowel, you would use "y" as a buffer and not "n", such as in arabayı görüyorum. The "y" changes to "n" ONLY when the last letter of the word is a vowel due to adding a possesive suffix, such as in ikisi. Another example, I see his car would be written as follows, onun arabasını görüyorum and NOT arabasıyı. Hope this helps.
And why dies it need to be accusative when other sentences don't need to be?
Why do we need kadınların instead of kadının? Doesn't ikisi implicitly denote that it is more than one woman?
You will use "ikisi de" for subjects and "ikisini de" for objects.
To use "hem" here, it would be "hem kadın hem de kadın." You use "hem" when you are talking about two different things, and "ikisi" when you are talking about two of the same thing.
Yes. Because that is technically a definite noun compound and in a definite noun compound the word which has the suffix '-in' always comes before.
can someone explain the appearance of the "in" at the end of kadinlarin and the "ni" at the end of ikisini in a simple example form? why both times? why is it ikisi de in similar questions. I think of it as both "of" but it appears twice - is it literally saying "of the women I am seeing both of them?" Slightly confused :)
In Turkish both the possessed entity and the possessor are denoted, whereas in English it is only the possessor: the woman‘s bag, in Turkish it resmbles a construction like: the woman ‘s her bag.. the woman 's bag her That's why it goes kadinlarin ikisi Now accusative i gets glued to the word by using copula n: ni -> ikisini
My screen shows Ben iki kadını da görüyorum as correct. Can someone explain that construction? I thought it was ikisinda but got marked wrong....
Well, ikisinda is wrong. It should be "ikisini de" :)
What was shown to you is just another way to word that (albeit less common).
So this might be a stupid question, but why are using the genitive here. I thought in this case Kadin is direct object so accusative shoulv be used. Where is the possesive here? Are we trying to create a possesive relationship between both and women? If so, this is really weird, for english speakers since I am not sure we can recreate the same reasoning in english. Can anyone elaborate on this? please. Even though Alexin's explanation is good as usual, I thank you for that.
I thought in this case Kadin is direct object
"Woman" is not the direct object. "Both of the women" is. We express "both" as "two."
So this becomes "the two of the women" (the women's two) -- "kadınların ikisi" -- as a complete genitive-possessive pair. Then you add the accusative because it is a specific direct object.
Why is "görürüm" not acceptable? "Görüyorum" literally translates to "I am seeing".
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The English sentence is missing the word "of". It should be "both OF the women".
That would also make it easier to translate into Turkish.
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Can someone please explain why this construct was wrong?...: 'kadınların hem de görüyorum'
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Because ikisi is the direct object, so it needs the buffer "n" and the accusative suffix "i".