"I see both the women."
Translation:Kadınların ikisini de görüyorum.
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Adding to this^
Kadınların ikisini görüyorum. = I see two of the women (There are more than 2 women, but I only see 2 of them.)
Kadınların ikisini de görüyorum. = I see both of the women. (There is a total of 2 women and I see them both.)
This goes for all the numbers.
Arabaların üçünü görüyorum. = I see three of the cars (there are more than 3.)
Arabaların üçünü de görüyorum. = I see all three cars. (There is a total of 3 cars. And I see them all.)
ikisi = iki + si (possesive suffix). On the other hand, ikisini = iki + si (possesive suffix) + n (buffer letter) + i (accusative). Note that, usually to add the accusative suffix to a word ending in a vowel, you would use "y" as a buffer and not "n", such as in arabayı görüyorum. The "y" changes to "n" ONLY when the last letter of the word is a vowel due to adding a possesive suffix, such as in ikisi. Another example, I see his car would be written as follows, onun arabasını görüyorum and NOT arabasıyı. Hope this helps.
can someone explain the appearance of the "in" at the end of kadinlarin and the "ni" at the end of ikisini in a simple example form? why both times? why is it ikisi de in similar questions. I think of it as both "of" but it appears twice - is it literally saying "of the women I am seeing both of them?" Slightly confused :)
In Turkish both the possessed entity and the possessor are denoted, whereas in English it is only the possessor: the woman‘s bag, in Turkish it resmbles a construction like: the woman ‘s her bag.. the woman 's bag her That's why it goes kadinlarin ikisi Now accusative i gets glued to the word by using copula n: ni -> ikisini
So this might be a stupid question, but why are using the genitive here. I thought in this case Kadin is direct object so accusative shoulv be used. Where is the possesive here? Are we trying to create a possesive relationship between both and women? If so, this is really weird, for english speakers since I am not sure we can recreate the same reasoning in english. Can anyone elaborate on this? please. Even though Alexin's explanation is good as usual, I thank you for that.
I thought in this case Kadin is direct object
"Woman" is not the direct object. "Both of the women" is. We express "both" as "two."
So this becomes "the two of the women" (the women's two) -- "kadınların ikisi" -- as a complete genitive-possessive pair. Then you add the accusative because it is a specific direct object.