Questions about "Suggestion"
Hey! I am studyin suggestions along the tree today. It happens that my Tandem-Partner taught me how to say "Let's ..." just 2 days ago.
He said that it is very important to use "hadi" in the sentence too. According to him the best version would be "Hadi verb+suffix", thus "Hadi gidelim". He keeps saying that word order is very flexible in Turkish and also accepts "Gidelim hadi" (easier for me in the learning phase) and "Gidelim mi?" as similar. I see that there is a difference (imerative vs. question) between hadi and mi, but I am surprised to find that Duo doesn't mention at all, as my tandem corrected me every time I forgot it. What is your opinion?
I would also love to learn how to make suggestions about other people, but it seems to be an entire different construction, right? Especially I would like to know how to say things like "should I help you" / "should I do xy for you".
Thank you very much in advance !!! :) Sağ ol!
"hadi" or correctly spelled "haydi" is not necessary at all, but you can use it and we accept it always in alternatives. Your tandem is wrong, I don't know why he thinks so. Maybe he just loves this word :)
We only taught the suggestion for 1st person plural because that's the most commonly used form and easiest to translate to English. We had to prioritize things, Turkish has so much grammar, and some tenses which are hard to translate, so we couldn't include everything. Neither does any other Duolingo tree. We will keep adding things slowly when we can. For suggestion, it is also used somewhat commonly for first person singular, but for 2nd and 3rd person it is just poetic (or rarely used in some regions) so it doesn't make much sense to teach here. But here they are for you (it is totally regular so actually once you learn it for 1st person singular from the course, you can apply it to any other person)
(seriously, the last time someone said "gelesin" in a conversation was probably centuries ago, although you can still hear it in songs and poems)
What about "bu dağlar taşlar şahidim olsun" (Gel - Mabel Matiz) and "sussun balıklar" (Hediye - Sıla)? I thought at first that this was some kind of third person imperative or jussive, but it has the form of second person, so maybe they are talking directly to the stones, mountains and fish and it's a simple imperative like in English? It just seems a bit strange to say "(You) be my witness(es) these mountains, stones", so it seemed to me more like "Let these mountains, stones be my witnesses."
I'll be interested to hear what native speakers say, but when I looked this up in my grammar book (Turkish: An Essential Grammar, p. 204) after reading your post I couldn't find any reference to hadi being absolutely (i.e. grammatically) necessary. It might be something similar to the (optional) use of acaba when you use the conditional form to express uncertainty about a suggestion:
- Nereye gidelim? - Where should we go?
- Acaba nereye gelsek? - I wonder where we should go?
So here acaba acts as a 'flag' early on in the sentence that there is some uncertainty involved without having to wait until you get to the conditional form -sek. Saying hadi presumably does the same job.
And yes, it would be great if they added suggestions for other people when they expand the tree.
Hadi (or the emphasized version Haydi) more or less means 'come on'. So as ajcee7 stated it's optional but I can say that it's used very frequently. Your tandem actually talks about a colloquial use of hadi.
Gidelim hadi? -> Let's go, huh?
Hadi in this sentence almost corresponds to huh? :) So it's not necessary to use it and it's so colloquial that we should tolerate its absence in Duolingo.
Thank you very much!!! :)
So I can just drop the hadi and concentrate on the verbform! :) Cool!
But still: if the old grammar is not any longer used, how would Turkish speakers nowadays say something like "Should I help you?" or like "I don't know which one I should buy." ? I guess it might be very different things in Turkish, corresponding to one thing in English.
Selcen - and the others! - I really appreciate your work! (I was actually even wondering if I could meet some of you guys in İstanbul and learn more about how you constructed the tree. It is too late now, though). The more I study and learn about Turkish the more there seems to be an endless amount of new and never even heard of constructions waiting for me once I have mastered the basics. :D
as I said it still used for 1st person singular. So that would be "Sana yardım edeyim mi?"
for "I don't know which one I should buy." actually we have another tense that we don't teach in the course, "Dilek-şart kipi". "Hangisini alsam bilmiyorum". (It looks like conditional, but it is not)
Keep in mind that "should" can also be translated as -meli (just like must); it depends on the meaning.
Maybe I just found a solution for my problem in the lesson gerunds! I am trying to construct sentences like this now:
"Sen benim xy etmemi istiyor musun?" for "Do you want me to do xy?" or "Sen benim seninle gelmemi istiyor musun? for "Do you want me to come with you?"
Would this sound acceptable?